User Tag List

First 1234 Last

Results 21 to 30 of 40

  1. #21
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Enneagram
    4 so/sp
    Posts
    6,932

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    This might sound overly cold, but I'm really not looking for any kind of friendship with the neighbors. I probably care less than I should about what my neighbors think of me, which is why I didn't think twice about calling the police to solve the 'kids throwing stuff' problem. Truly. I mean, I'm never blatantly rude or anything, but I absolutely never go out of my way to show friendship because I'm not interested. I don't like that it may sound elitest, but I just don't like wasting time on 'friendly behavior' with people who bore me. I'm not disrespectful to them, just incredibly, incredibly aloof.
    Yeah, this can be how I am with neighbors, especially if I get a sense that I have little to nothing in common with them. I just won't even bother. I'll be polite, I'll say hello, maybe chitchat occasionally, but the fact that they're a neighbor doesn't mean much to me, in terms of any 'obligation' or need to try to become close to them.

    Anywho..regarding the OP... I really, really related to the latter half of it..i.e. thought process re. the doorbell, then them randomly being in the backyard, you initially being somewhat offended/alarmed/bothered by them being back there without telling you, then that feeling backing off once you realized what they were doing and how concerned they were about all of it.

    To the first bit about the police (although I read your later post that that wasn't an important element to the story), I would not have done that - especially if I didn't know the neighbors' personalities well enough, I wouldn't want to piss them off for fear that they'd start being subtly obnoxious in the future just to get back at me. haha. I'd probably have walked over and talked to them. BUT I guess the negative of doing that is you could end up with someone who wouldn't much care, and would take forever to fix it, when it would have been better to put the fear in them. I guess there are total unknowns no matter what the choice.

    Also related to fidelia's post, re. one minor thing isn't a big deal, and I tend to be pretty mellow/chill about isolated things, but once patterns start forming, the sum of all of the no-big-deals can become a Big Deal.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

    My Photography and Watercolor Fine Art Prints!!! Cascade Colors Fine Art Prints
    https://docs.google.com/uc?export=do...Gd5N3NZZE52QjQ

  2. #22
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    1w2 so/sx
    Posts
    11,134

    Default

    Esoteric Wench - I understand the point you are trying to make and the general sentiment is somewhat valid. However, I can tell you that stating it in that way is unlikely to win any INFJ I know over to your point of view. It seems abrasive and forceful, based on very little personal communication with Z Buck McFate (to the point of getting both name and gender wrong more than once in this thread). That wouldn't be an effective way in real life of addressing an issue without raising hackles. I can't see how here would be any different, even if Z Buck's choice goes against your Fi sense of right and wrong. Your approach violates our Fe just as surely as Z Buck's goes against your sensibilities.

    While I am probably more socially open than some INFJs, there is still a filtering process when categorizing relationships of any kind, as well as activities. Sometimes we may err on the side of an overactive filter, but I would argue that all types are prone to that in various ways, although they may choose different points in the relationship to do so. I agree that it is a pity to be too dismissive to people and that everyone does have something to teach/offer us. On the other hand, there is only so much time in anyone's life to cultivate relationships, and so sometimes you have to make choices. We just tend to do some of that decision making early on through observing whether the person we are meeting has traits that would make them a likely potential friend or not. ENFPs do the same thing after they have welcomed people into their circle, which can make others feel quite rejected if they believed they were in and are suddenly dropped or forgotten about. Both types have their potential pitfalls in how they go about choosing friends, but I don't think that those different tendancies should invalidate either approach as long as it is tempered with respect and consideration for others.

  3. #23
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    MBTI
    INfj
    Enneagram
    451 sx/so
    Socionics
    ENFj Ni
    Posts
    5,651

    Default

    Z: I think you did the right thing all around. I think it's cool that they were so amenable to fixing things up, and am pleasantly surprised to hear that.

    I used to be like that (aloof) with neighbors and people that fell outside my good friend/family boundary. I just didn't think they were worth my effort. I've come to realize that I can really have an amazing time talking to neighbors and getting to know people I might not have thought likely in the past. Indeed, my neighbor ladies, while having distinctly different personalities than me (esfj/estp/?), have been there for me on many occasions when I would not have bothered my friends who lived farther away, or when I just wanted to take a stroll and say hi to someone. Over the years those relationships have deepened into a sense of community that is highly lacking in our society. We take each other meals when we're sick, our kids play at each other's homes, etc. I wasn't interested before, and now I regret not seizing that opportunity sooner.

    You never really know who you can have an interesting conversation with, or who might have some obscure commonality with you. So, now, having had this experience myself (and coming from a more distant aloof place before) it makes almost more sense to me that we embrace those that live near us, our local community. Just as we should try to eat locally, buy locally, etc. It's become the church I never had, but always felt like I was missing.
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
    4w5 5w4 1w9
    ~Torah observant, Christ inspired~
    Life Path 11

    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  4. #24
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    ESTP
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Socionics
    SLE
    Posts
    6,364

    Default

    As a supposed INTP, I can relate to the OP. My anger would have immediately dissipated upon discovering why they had invaded my back yard. It's like a post hoc rationalization process. Then I would have had a post-post hoc rationalization process in which I told myself that it would have been a really trivial thing to display anger over, and I would have been glad that I didn't.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  5. #25
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    3,692

    Default

    I really don’t know what to make of esoteric’s post. It's like she’s preaching that I really ought to be more tolerant, but she’s doing it out of intolerance for what I’m tolerant of. So… dunno. I was serious though, when I replied “This is what I’m looking for” to part of her post. I wish more other types would jump in and give a couple cents about how they would have handled it.

    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    To the first bit about the police (although I read your later post that that wasn't an important element to the story), I would not have done that - especially if I didn't know the neighbors' personalities well enough, I wouldn't want to piss them off for fear that they'd start being subtly obnoxious in the future just to get back at me. haha. I'd probably have walked over and talked to them. BUT I guess the negative of doing that is you could end up with someone who wouldn't much care, and would take forever to fix it, when it would have been better to put the fear in them. I guess there are total unknowns no matter what the choice.
    It’s only in reading these comments that I’m starting to think it was maybe harsh to call the police. It really was a matter of there being more unknowns than I wanted to think about- and I had enough on my mind with other things going on- so it seemed like the quickest way to fix the problem of kids throwing rocks at my house. I mean if the kids were doing something more innocuous- like they were clearly playing a game and accidently causing damage to my property- then I wouldn’t have had cause to anticipate such negative unknowns, and probably would have just talked to them. But these kids were throwing rocks directly at the back of my house- hard enough to break two window panes (they broke both patio sliding doors), and I just didn’t want to deal with the kind of family dynamics one might find in a family where the kids get their kicks by intentionally causing damage like that. They told the grandmother they were aiming for something else- but to keep going after one pane had broken? It just seemed kind of ‘off’ and I really had no idea what to expect, so I called the police to handle it. If I’d met them even once before it happened, it might be a different story. But I guess all this is beside the point.


    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    Also related to fidelia's post, re. one minor thing isn't a big deal, and I tend to be pretty mellow/chill about isolated things, but once patterns start forming, the sum of all of the no-big-deals can become a Big Deal.
    And by the time it’s become a Big Deal- it’s exponentially more difficult to talk about. IMO, at least. That’s why I’d really like to cut it off at the source. Doorslamming has always been a matter of preserving sanity for me, like a last option- but it’s never felt great to do it.


    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    I used to be like that (aloof) with neighbors and people that fell outside my good friend/family boundary. I just didn't think they were worth my effort. I've come to realize that I can really have an amazing time talking to neighbors and getting to know people I might not have thought likely in the past. Indeed, my neighbor ladies, while having distinctly different personalities than me (esfj/estp/?), have been there for me on many occasions when I would not have bothered my friends who lived farther away, or when I just wanted to take a stroll and say hi to someone. Over the years those relationships have deepened into a sense of community that is highly lacking in our society. We take each other meals when we're sick, our kids play at each other's homes, etc. I wasn't interested before, and now I regret not seizing that opportunity sooner.

    You never really know who you can have an interesting conversation with, or who might have some obscure commonality with you. So, now, having had this experience myself (and coming from a more distant aloof place before) it makes almost more sense to me that we embrace those that live near us, our local community. Just as we should try to eat locally, buy locally, etc. It's become the church I never had, but always felt like I was missing.
    This was comforting to read. Because I do see myself kind of leaning in that direction somewhat, I'm certainly more interested in the people directly around me than I used to be. I kind of see it as an 'I'll be ready for it when I'm ready for it, and not until then' kind of a thing. Anyway, thanks.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

    5w4 sx/sp Johari / Nohari

  6. #26
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    3,692

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    As a supposed INTP, I can relate to the OP. My anger would have immediately dissipated upon discovering why they had invaded my back yard. It's like a post hoc rationalization process. Then I would have had a post-post hoc rationalization process in which I told myself that it would have been a really trivial thing to display anger over, and I would have been glad that I didn't.
    Do you also find yourself in situations where it's built up, like all the sudden there's a clear pattern of there being too many trivial things to ignore? Or do you find (as a P) that you let them go before they accumulate?
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

    5w4 sx/sp Johari / Nohari

  7. #27
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    4,226

    Default

    Hmmm...

    I would not have called the police or even gotten pissed. I have a 14 yo. Kids are just dumb sometimes. I would have went straight to the parents and explained exactly what happened and asked for them to repair.

    EDIT-just reread-that is a lot of damage, so the call to the police sounds more warranted.

    Measuring the door? Well I would have felt a twinge of Te pissed. "This is my space, why are you in it?" But then actually been hit with a wave of Fi gratitude at the caring and effort they were taking to fix the problem that was caused by their kids. It is a sign of genuine remorse for the kids being dumb. Total forgiveness for the Fe/Te fail of entering someones yard uninvited.

  8. #28
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Enneagram
    4 so/sp
    Posts
    6,932

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    And by the time it’s become a Big Deal- it’s exponentially more difficult to talk about. IMO, at least. That’s why I’d really like to cut it off at the source. Doorslamming has always been a matter of preserving sanity for me, like a last option- but it’s never felt great to do it.
    I guess I can kind of understand why you are tying this thread to the doorslamming concept, but personally I view the situation in the OP as an everyday sort of thing (meaning: You're not invested in the relationship to begin with, as opposed to doorslamming, which is when you're already in an invested relationship) and I don't think there was anything wrong with how you handled it. Sure, there are different ways, but everyone's different. Which, of course, is why you wanted to solicit other peoples' feedback on how *they* may have handled it!

    Anyhow.. for myself, I don't really know how I would change the sum-of-little-things thing. I'm honestly NOT perturbed/upset with isolated incidents, primarily *because* they are isolated and it might just be a one-time deal or they're in a weird mood. Am I supposed to be bothered? Am I supposed to put my foot down and voice something when I don't really feel it at all and don't care because in an isolated context it is trivial? I don't see how that is any more positive or beneficial than speaking up when it actually DOES become a matter of importance to me - which may be a while later and may be precisely because there is an actual pattern/behavioral thing that's setting in. Phrasing differently, I may give it time to see if it's isolated, vs. whether it is a key component to that persons' personality and who they are. It's the pattern itself that might bother - not the pieces of the pattern. You know? I mean, that's a pretty fundamental part of who I am - I don't see that as changing, nor that it 'should' be changed -- i.e. your 'cutting it off at the source' comment? Please elaborate if I'm going in a different direction than what you're talking about.

    Also, if there is a pattern and that's a Big Deal to me -- I'm equally uncomfortable with trying to change people. I don't think that's right, either. So perhaps in some instances I'm more liable to just be, 'meh', that's them, I don't think who they naturally are alligns well with me, I don't want to change them, so I'll just let them be them and things will gradually fade away. I might do that rather than 'working through things' - because I don't necessarily want them to change just to cater to my preferences, and don't even view them as a bad person or anything. If we don't naturally fit, I guess sometimes I just decide it's best to let it go. This isn't a good thing, nor do I think it's a bad thing - it is what it is.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

    My Photography and Watercolor Fine Art Prints!!! Cascade Colors Fine Art Prints
    https://docs.google.com/uc?export=do...Gd5N3NZZE52QjQ

  9. #29
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    ESTP
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Socionics
    SLE
    Posts
    6,364

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    Do you also find yourself in situations where it's built up, like all the sudden there's a clear pattern of there being too many trivial things to ignore? Or do you find (as a P) that you let them go before they accumulate?
    Yeah, sometimes if I can see a pattern of little things then I start to think that maybe I'm being naive in continually letting them slide. For example, I had a friend once who, I started to notice, only contacted me when she wanted something from me. That would have been cool if that kind of relationship were reciprocal, but I found that I gave more than I recieved, and we had never had any explicit agreement that things would be this way. My solution, however, was not to explode in anger or anything, but simply to change my behavior towards her to match her own towards me. The build-up did make me angry on the inside, though (even if it was very short-lived.)
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  10. #30
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    3,692

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    Anyhow.. for myself, I don't really know how I would change the sum-of-little-things thing. I'm honestly NOT perturbed/upset with isolated incidents. Am I supposed to be? Am I supposed to put my foot down and voice something when I don't really feel it at all and don't care? I don't see how that is any more positive or beneficial than speaking up when it actually DOES become a matter of importance to me - which may be a while later and may be precisely because there is an actual pattern/behavioral thing that's setting in. Or, I may give it time to see if it's isolated, or if it is a key component to that persons' personality and who they are. It's the pattern itself that might bother - not the pieces of the pattern. You know? I mean, that's a pretty fundamental part of who I am - I don't see that as changing, nor that it 'should' be changed -- i.e. your 'cutting it off at the source' comment? Please elaborate if I'm going in a different direction than what you're talking about.
    I tried- in the last paragraph of the op- to explain that the neighbor incident wasn't really going to be a problem. Isolated incidents aren't a problem for me either. It just seemed like a good example of "my annoyance disappears once I even begin to consider the other side". The real problem is when similar events happen in important relationships and they slowly accumulate: the trivial 'no big deals' building up to the Big Deal. The neighbor story seemed like a good vehicle to get opinions from other types about how they react to getting annoyed- but the actual incident per se isn't a big deal to me.

    And by 'cutting it off at the source', I mean I'm looking to figure out how to voice my annoyances before they get to the overwhelming point where I need to doorslam someone. I mean- I hear you, about not expecting other people to change. At the same time, though, I'd really like to give them a choice. I've always ended up accepting someone's behavior as the 'way they are', and- not getting offended- but also not giving them much credit for being trustworthy or particularly caring. It can be a shitty stick to be on the other end of: having someone not tell me what I was doing to offend them, but sporadically being some kind of victim because of the 'way I am'.

    I'm not saying I want to learn how to start complaining left and right whenever someone annoys me- I'm just saying I'd like to find a balance where I can communicate what annoys me before it builds up.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

    5w4 sx/sp Johari / Nohari

Similar Threads

  1. The Powerlessness of Positive Thinking
    By 93JC in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 02-20-2014, 09:57 PM
  2. The Poison of Positive Thinking
    By ygolo in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: 12-11-2013, 05:49 PM
  3. [INFJ] When INFJs Dismiss Outside Input Because of the Source
    By Esoteric Wench in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 42
    Last Post: 03-19-2013, 01:54 PM
  4. Another in the stream of INFJs
    By Kite in forum Welcomes and Introductions
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 03-04-2008, 04:44 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO