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  1. #11
    Dali
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    LOL. You INJ ladies are quite the comedians.

    To OP: I have nothing to add other than I agree with the person who said that it seems most likely that she was trying to rekindle/initiate a friendship and indicate, through her actions, that there were no hard feelings. Of course, I could be mistaken.

    p.s. As a fellow male Fi user, I complete identify with the 'Darcy bit'.

  2. #12
    ThatGirl
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    INTJs, lol, you guys are so cute.

  3. #13
    One day and the next Rainne's Avatar
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    Impulse man, impulse.
    Weathergirl: District 38 is sunny. Slight rock showers this morning. Chance of rock showers into the afternoon—20 percent. District 39 is cloudy. Chance of rock showers this afternoon—10 percent.
    Edward: Bebop here here! Alright woo hoo!
    Weathergirl: Chance of rock showers today upgraded to 90 percent.
    Edward: Really.

  4. #14
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    To the OP:

    You are only lacking one thing: social experience. You need to get to know people more superficially.

    Yes, I know. INTJs don't play that tune.

    But that's exactly what you missed. That's the root cause of everything you're doing wrong.

    It's all about making connections with other people. They start out small, always. Some just fizzle, some grow a bit but no more. Others grow exponentially in surprising ways.

    Your mistake with the INFJ is simple: you should have offered her a small cup of the water of your emotions (i.e., let her know that you are interested in her, and perhaps do something that would allow you to get to know each other better), but instead you pulled out a fire hose and drenched her with your infatuated love.

    The other mistake that INTJs often make is that we tend to be so unaware of our feelings, we only become aware after they're really strong, long past the point where they are within our ability to handle. This is where socializing and making friends in general comes in. By understanding the different levels of connection, it will gradually become more and more obvious to you what you're really looking for. You'll learn to deal with your emotions while they're still small, before they explode every 2 years or so.

    It is all of the lesser, "superficial" connections you'll make that will teach you what the strong connection really feels like.

    No, no, I'm not some sort of alien INTJ ... I was just as awkward as you, when I was your age. I didn't really learn this stuff until I was over 40. If you learn it now, you'll be much further along that I, much earlier in your life.

  5. #15
    Black Magic Buzzard Kra's Avatar
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    When Fi is running wild, I've found that the best thing to do is exactly what Fi is trying to avoid. That is compromising with Te. Te is definitely more likely to take a concrete action that will at least leave you results, rather than just theories.

    If you ever have a thought that starts with, "Common sense dictates...," you should probably go with that over the "What if..." that Ni-Fi loves entirely too much for its own good.

    Never think that you have to isolate someone in order to talk to them, or get to know them better. They are certainly less likely to be intimidated in a group setting anyway.
    Function Activity:
    Ni > Te > Ti = Fi > Ne > Si = Fe > Se

  6. #16
    Junior Member LinearOrbit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nonsequitur View Post
    As an INTJ I understand wanting to put the situation behind you, but I think with said INFJ you've got the order of actions entirely wrong. Instead of spilling your guts in a Darcy-ish "You must allow me to tell you how much I love and adore you" way after a few coffee invitations where she turned you down (probably because she knows nothing about you), perhaps what you should've done (and what you could still do) is just let the relationship organically grow from friendship. Maybe that's what she's looking for now. To see if you could become friends first, maybe something else later. Of course, you shouldn't expect that it's the case. If she's just looking to get to know you better as a person and be friends (despite what she says), you'll have to decide if that's what you want.
    I couldn't really laugh at the Darcy characterization at first - it was simply accurate !

    If there had ever been some vaguely apparent way of initiating a simple friendship first, I would have gone for it instead. But if there is no social over-lap (different sets of friends, etc.), then at some point, you're basically left with the cold sell: 'Hey, I'm interested in us getting to know each other - are you up for that?" - and if you're not a good salesperson, then the odds dip (or plunge ).

    But thanks - she is trying to get to know me better. Although I'm not sure why, and I haven't worked anything out past that point.

    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousFeeling View Post
    I'm wondering if she feels bad for ignoring you and thinks that perhaps you'd feel better if you were given at least some acknowledgment. Or it could be that she's watching how you respond with her to get an idea if you're still interested in her.
    Her interest is broader than that. I was once talking to someone and she happened to be walking past me from the side. Not knowing it was her, the movement caught my eye - I glanced suddenly in her direction and she started - with social (and not personal) embarrassment: she had been focusing on me for the last several steps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dali View Post
    p.s. As a fellow male Fi user, I complete identify with the 'Darcy bit'.
    Thanks. This stuff makes me wish it was in a curriculum somewhere...

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    INTJs, lol, you guys are so cute.


    Anyway, the general consensus here is along the lines of "I can see you're not a psycho now. If you like, we can talk." Without that perspective, I just want the nicest way of us getting back to nothing. With it, I don't know anymore.

  7. #17
    Junior Member LinearOrbit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    You are only lacking one thing: social experience. You need to get to know people more superficially.
    [...]
    Your mistake with the INFJ is simple: you should have offered her a small cup of the water of your emotions (i.e., let her know that you are interested in her, and perhaps do something that would allow you to get to know each other better), but instead you pulled out a fire hose and drenched her with your infatuated love.
    Sigh - yes, of course that's it. This whole "socializing has merit in and of itself" has dawned on me really late in life. Doctors have morbidity and mortality conferences, I have this :rolli:

    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    The other mistake that INTJs often make is that we tend to be so unaware of our feelings, we only become aware after they're really strong, long past the point where they are within our ability to handle. This is where socializing and making friends in general comes in. By understanding the different levels of connection, it will gradually become more and more obvious to you what you're really looking for. You'll learn to deal with your emotions while they're still small, before they explode every 2 years or so.
    I wish it was that simple. I can see the emotions as they happen, I just can't stop them (and they work overtime thanks to Ni). The best I could manage at that stage was to ask her out for coffee (having a specific goal in mind makes it easier to have a conversation when there's this continual sensation of shell-shock as you speak to contend with (it wasn't quite "I Tarzan, you Jane", but that's a low bar)), and it was downhill from there.

    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    If you learn it now, you'll be much further along that I, much earlier in your life.
    I hear what you're saying; it's certainly something I want to get better at!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kra View Post
    When Fi is running wild, I've found that the best thing to do is exactly what Fi is trying to avoid. That is compromising with Te. Te is definitely more likely to take a concrete action that will at least leave you results, rather than just theories.
    [...]
    Never think that you have to isolate someone in order to talk to them, or get to know them better. They are certainly less likely to be intimidated in a group setting anyway.
    My Te sucks at small-talk (not enough social experience). Really, with friends, I use far more Ni/Fi to see what they care about; my Te really only has sharp teeth .

    I've never thought of the group dynamic like that before - that's really good!

    Thanks - both of you - these new angles, and what to focus on is useful. But that still leaves me with an INFJ I don't know how to deal with.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Keps Mnemnosyne's Avatar
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    What to do with an INFJ? (Besides baking them into a pie)

    My advice would be to be friendly. To add people to our social network we, even as introverts, do what extroverts do. We do not kidnap random strangers off the street and force them into our private worlds (if only we could), but go out and meet new people in social activities. Extroverts do the same, just more of it whereas introverts prefer to build our connections with pre-existing friendships.

    I would suggest finding an activity you and her (possibly church related? but I don't know anything about either of you except what was said in thread) like that can be done with your friends and then ask her to come along. If you can't think of any activities you both share, then think of one you and your friends like and invite her. At worst you'll have a fun activity you and your friends can do.

    (After writing this post I noticed I had skipped Kra's post when I had read the thread. Nonetheless my post is sort of the same just more details on the Kra's last sentence.)

    Why do you feel you have to do something in the first place? My assumption is that you still want a happier ending than you foresee. If not, why do you care what she does? She will either become a friend of yours or fade back out into neutrality.

    I (INFJ male) pay extra attention to those who are interested in me with no mutual feelings on my part. I don't want them to feel through my actions that I'm avoiding them, but I don't want to encourage their infatuation either. You might be misinterpreting her attention for something more (or you might not).

    Sorry if anything I said above seems snippy, it wasn't meant to be and if it offended you, I apologize.
    Love wouldn't exist without loneliness to inspire it.

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  9. #19
    Junior Member LinearOrbit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keps Mnemnosyne View Post
    Sorry if anything I said above seems snippy, it wasn't meant to be and if it offended you, I apologize.
    Don't worry, if there's any possible way for me to find offense with what you said, I'm not seeing it . I obviously keep in mind the fact that you're looking at a heavily distilled summary of the situation; at the end of the day, I'm looking for your insight and advice so I can work things out for myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keps Mnemnosyne View Post
    We do not kidnap random strangers off the street and force them into our private worlds (if only we could)
    Why not? That would be very practical

    Quote Originally Posted by Keps Mnemnosyne View Post
    My advice would be to be friendly.
    [...]
    I would suggest finding an activity you and her (possibly church related? but I don't know anything about either of you except what was said in thread) like that can be done with your friends and then ask her to come along. If you can't think of any activities you both share, then think of one you and your friends like and invite her. At worst you'll have a fun activity you and your friends can do.
    It's a bigger gulf than that. She and I really have no common ground at this stage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keps Mnemnosyne View Post
    Why do you feel you have to do something in the first place? My assumption is that you still want a happier ending than you foresee. If not, why do you care what she does? She will either become a friend of yours or fade back out into neutrality.
    That's a fair starting point. If you're saying I can simply leave the ball in her court like this to make any move, without causing offense, and if she isn't interested in doing that, this will all go away? Excellent! Would I like a happy ending instead? Sure. But mostly I'm done with the risk-taking and wishful thinking here. I really would like to get to the end.

    What uumlau said about needing to get to know people more superficially has since dawned on me as being fairly profound, and it really goes to the heart of it all. As an introvert, I only ever aim for depth in relationships, and not everyone wants that, nor is it always appropriate (of course, it's most noticable right after Fi kicks my legs out from under me )
    Last edited by LinearOrbit; 05-26-2010 at 04:45 AM. Reason: Added emoticon

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by LinearOrbit View Post
    Don't worry, if there's any possible way for me to find offense with what you said, I'm not seeing it . I obviously keep in mind the fact that you're looking at a heavily distilled summary of the situation; at the end of the day, I'm looking for your insight and advice so I can work things out for myself.



    Why not? That would be very practical



    It's a bigger gulf than that. She and I really have no common ground at this stage.



    That's a fair starting point. If you're saying I can simply leave the ball in her court like this to make any move, without causing offense, and if she isn't interested in doing that, this will all go away? Excellent! Would I like a happy ending instead? Sure. But mostly I'm done with the risk-taking and wishful thinking here. I really would like to get to the end.

    What uumlau said about needing to get to know people more superficially has since dawned on me as being fairly profound, and it really goes to the heart of it all. As an introvert, I only ever aim for depth in relationships, and not everyone wants that, nor is it always appropriate (of course, it's most noticable right after Fi kicks my legs out from under me )
    Seriously it sucks going for an extrovert. (Not saying they have no emotional depth)

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