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  1. #21
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Oh I know this one far too well... I took a disciplinary position for half a year to cover for someone else several years back and it was SO HARD at first...

    I so much agree that if you make a list of rules that you feel are fair, and consequences that make sense for when rules are broken, then you can follow that and conflict becomes about the rules instead of about you. It still sucks, but it sucks less. And you can offer lots of ways to gain back points that can be beneficial to overall learning - extra reading, extra work, independent projects, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by nicolita
    When I think about my youth as a young, excited ENFP, I was often hurt by authority figures blindly enforcing harsh rules without explanation.
    Me too. I think I still am. Everyone is. There is no benefit to discipline without mind and heart behind it. It just becomes a cog in a wheel.

  2. #22
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lithasblot View Post
    I, of course, have no problem getting kids excited, coming up with cool projects to do, etc. etc.

    My biggest problem is when I have to be "the meanie." I find it so difficult to be tough enough and maintain tough standards all year (I teach High School). It's not that I want to be liked. It's more that I can see all the possibilities and permutations and have trouble deciding that the standard I've set is indeed the final standard. I might allow a kid to change the requirements for a project mid-project if it seems like what s/he wants to do would be really cool! But that messes up my consistency with everyone else.

    Sometimes, too, I "fall" for my students' excuses and let them turn things in late or "forget" to take the late points off because I can't stand the confrontation with the parent that will undoubtedly ensue. I mean, confrontation almost causes me physical pain and I cry when I get angry and I never EVER want to cry in front of parents.

    But this is no good. I just had my eval today and I need to work on this.

    Does anyone have any advice? Doesn't have to be from teachers - anyone who has advice for an ENFP on how to become more firm and consistent.

    Thanks.
    I rather doubt that my advice will be helpful to you, but it is worth a short. At the very least, I am hoping you might benefit from the method of problem-solving that I'd recommend to you.

    Here is how I'd go about your situation if I was in your shoes, this will take a good amount of time and energy, but if you get it right, it can be quite effective.

    1. Clear your mind. Right now you're consumed by anxieties, fears, sentiments of grief, self-pity and so on. There is no way you'll be able to think clearly as long as you're stuck in that mentality. If you don't have a way of clearing your mind, practice meditation: this is a proven method to help you avoid getting consumed by the onslaught of negative thoughts and sentiments.

    2. Outline the key facts of your situation. For example, ask yourself: what is it that you want to accomplish? I imagine it may be difficult to answer this question as there is a great deal going on now. So, don't aim too high: let's just say your goal is to do your job in a manner that is as least stressful as possible and accords with your conscience.

    3. Outline realistic negative consequences that could befall you. Are you on good terms with your colleagues? What about your administrators? How would they react if you were to upset a parent by imposing legitimate penalties upon their child? Quite likely, many would support you and would most likely allow you to simply do your job by enforcing the policies of your curriculum. Nonetheless, you need to look around and make sure that's the case.


    Did you know that narcissism is on the rise in the student body? A wealth of empirical evidence exists that kids have been becoming less empathetic, more self-centered and ultimately, more narcissistic since the 1970s. As for parents? They tend to see little value in genuine education and the rigorous standards that come with it, they merely see schooling as a vehicle of upward socio-economic mobility for their children. Of course, this is a generalization, but I am sure this is true for the majority of parents, otherwise why would they take issue with legitimate penalties you impose upon their kids.

    In my experience with college and high-school kids, I can tell you this: they'll generally do everything in their power to get the grades they need because they've been led to believe this is the way to be "successful" in life or at any rate, that's what pleases their parents. Given their overly inflated self-esteem and propensity to be very self-centered, why should you pity them?

    If you feel that some your kids don't fit the above articulated description, make an exception for them. However, the decision concerning who incurs a penalty and who does not is ultimately yours, otherwise the kids would not be able to cherish the hope of getting their parents to influence your judgment.

    In short, make sure you can't get in trouble with your administrators and then you penalize the kids accordingly. They're narcissists who have no concept of what it means to put forth an honest day's work, you can be sure that most of them deserve. You've got to stop thinking about how you might hurt the kids' feelings and ruffle the parents' feathers and do what your duty as an educator behooves you to do. Given how self-centered the kids are becoming and how poorly disciplined they tend to be, why should you think that they don't deserve to be penalized or that an appropriate punishment for irresponsible behavior won't do them good?
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  3. #23
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    I rather doubt that my advice will be helpful to you, but it is worth a short. At the very least, I am hoping you might benefit from the method of problem-solving that I'd recommend to you.

    Here is how I'd go about your situation if I was in your shoes, this will take a good amount of time and energy, but if you get it right, it can be quite effective.

    1. Clear your mind. Right now you're consumed by anxieties, fears, sentiments of grief, self-pity and so on. There is no way you'll be able to think clearly as long as you're stuck in that mentality. If you don't have a way of clearing your mind, practice meditation: this is a proven method to help you avoid getting consumed by the onslaught of negative thoughts and sentiments.

    2. Outline the key facts of your situation. For example, ask yourself: what is it that you want to accomplish? I imagine it may be difficult to answer this question as there is a great deal going on now. So, don't aim too high: let's just say your goal is to do your job in a manner that is as least stressful as possible and accords with your conscience.

    3. Outline realistic negative consequences that could befall you. Are you on good terms with your colleagues? What about your administrators? How would they react if you were to upset a parent by imposing legitimate penalties upon their child? Quite likely, many would support you and would most likely allow you to simply do your job by enforcing the policies of your curriculum. Nonetheless, you need to look around and make sure that's the case.


    Did you know that narcissism is on the rise in the student body? A wealth of empirical evidence exists that kids have been becoming less empathetic, more self-centered and ultimately, more narcissistic since the 1970s. As for parents? They tend to see little value in genuine education and the rigorous standards that come with it, they merely see schooling as a vehicle of upward socio-economic mobility for their children. Of course, this is a generalization, but I am sure this is true for the majority of parents, otherwise why would they take issue with legitimate penalties you impose upon their kids.

    In my experience with college and high-school kids, I can tell you this: they'll generally do everything in their power to get the grades they need because they've been led to believe this is the way to be "successful" in life or at any rate, that's what pleases their parents. Given their overly inflated self-esteem and propensity to be very self-centered, why should you pity them?

    If you feel that some your kids don't fit the above articulated description, make an exception for them. However, the decision concerning who incurs a penalty and who does not is ultimately yours, otherwise the kids would not be able to cherish the hope of getting their parents to influence your judgment.

    In short, make sure you can't get in trouble with your administrators and then you penalize the kids accordingly. They're narcissists who have no concept of what it means to put forth an honest day's work, you can be sure that most of them deserve. You've got to stop thinking about how you might hurt the kids' feelings and ruffle the parents' feathers and do what your duty as an educator behooves you to do. Given how self-centered the kids are becoming and how poorly disciplined they tend to be, why should you think that they don't deserve to be penalized or that an appropriate punishment for irresponsible behavior won't do them good?
    The governor of Louisiana wants to cut all education funding, since that is "the biggest waste."

  4. #24
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    I rather doubt that my advice will be helpful to you, but it is worth a short. At the very least, I am hoping you might benefit from the method of problem-solving that I'd recommend to you.

    Here is how I'd go about your situation if I was in your shoes, this will take a good amount of time and energy, but if you get it right, it can be quite effective.

    1. Clear your mind. Right now you're consumed by anxieties, fears, sentiments of grief, self-pity and so on. There is no way you'll be able to think clearly as long as you're stuck in that mentality. If you don't have a way of clearing your mind, practice meditation: this is a proven method to help you avoid getting consumed by the onslaught of negative thoughts and sentiments.

    2. Outline the key facts of your situation. For example, ask yourself: what is it that you want to accomplish? I imagine it may be difficult to answer this question as there is a great deal going on now. So, don't aim too high: let's just say your goal is to do your job in a manner that is as least stressful as possible and accords with your conscience.

    3. Outline realistic negative consequences that could befall you. Are you on good terms with your colleagues? What about your administrators? How would they react if you were to upset a parent by imposing legitimate penalties upon their child? Quite likely, many would support you and would most likely allow you to simply do your job by enforcing the policies of your curriculum. Nonetheless, you need to look around and make sure that's the case.


    Did you know that narcissism is on the rise in the student body? A wealth of empirical evidence exists that kids have been becoming less empathetic, more self-centered and ultimately, more narcissistic since the 1970s. As for parents? They tend to see little value in genuine education and the rigorous standards that come with it, they merely see schooling as a vehicle of upward socio-economic mobility for their children. Of course, this is a generalization, but I am sure this is true for the majority of parents, otherwise why would they take issue with legitimate penalties you impose upon their kids.

    In my experience with college and high-school kids, I can tell you this: they'll generally do everything in their power to get the grades they need because they've been led to believe this is the way to be "successful" in life or at any rate, that's what pleases their parents. Given their overly inflated self-esteem and propensity to be very self-centered, why should you pity them?

    If you feel that some your kids don't fit the above articulated description, make an exception for them. However, the decision concerning who incurs a penalty and who does not is ultimately yours, otherwise the kids would not be able to cherish the hope of getting their parents to influence your judgment.

    In short, make sure you can't get in trouble with your administrators and then you penalize the kids accordingly. They're narcissists who have no concept of what it means to put forth an honest day's work, you can be sure that most of them deserve. You've got to stop thinking about how you might hurt the kids' feelings and ruffle the parents' feathers and do what your duty as an educator behooves you to do. Given how self-centered the kids are becoming and how poorly disciplined they tend to be, why should you think that they don't deserve to be penalized or that an appropriate punishment for irresponsible behavior won't do them good?
    The governor of Louisiana wants to cut all education funding, since that is "the biggest waste."

  5. #25
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
    The governor of Louisiana wants to cut all education funding, since that is "the biggest waste."
    I can't blame him, the entire system of education needs to be scrapped and re-built from scratch.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  6. #26
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    I can't blame him, the entire system of education needs to be scrapped and re-built from scratch.
    Perhaps so.

    The problem in our state is that they take funding away from schools that are doing poorly. It doesn't make sense: how are the schools supposed to perform better given less resources? It creates a downward spiral of stupidity, in addition to an academic culture revolving around visible "results", encouraging such practices as shoving as many students as possible into courses at a much higher level than they are prepared for and forcing many students to take tests that are way above their level to make the school's numbers look good. ("We have 300 students taking AP tests out of 400 total!") I'm not just theorizing this - I have family in education who are very frustrated by it and my high school was getting into it during my own years there.

    The system has many problems... I think if teachers were provided with the resources they really need (ie, a lot more money) and if high-level administrator salaries were cut (or at least made more proportional in relation to teacher salaries), there would be massive improvement. To me it seems yet another institutional system (education, healthcare, government, etc) that is increasingly being run on business principles where business principles are not appropriate or beneficial to the functioning of the system because profit is not the underlying purpose. The system has become so fake because it revolves around external measures of "success" and is driven by profit, rather than actually attempting to measure education and being driven by how well it succeeds at that endeavor.

    /rant

    Sorry if I am preaching to the choir

  7. #27
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Why is the Japanese school system so advanced compared to America?

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