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  1. #11
    Member unicorncandy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lithasblot View Post
    I, of course, have no problem getting kids excited, coming up with cool projects to do, etc. etc.

    My biggest problem is when I have to be "the meanie." I find it so difficult to be tough enough and maintain tough standards all year (I teach High School). It's not that I want to be liked. It's more that I can see all the possibilities and permutations and have trouble deciding that the standard I've set is indeed the final standard. I might allow a kid to change the requirements for a project mid-project if it seems like what s/he wants to do would be really cool! But that messes up my consistency with everyone else.

    Sometimes, too, I "fall" for my students' excuses and let them turn things in late or "forget" to take the late points off because I can't stand the confrontation with the parent that will undoubtedly ensue. I mean, confrontation almost causes me physical pain and I cry when I get angry and I never EVER want to cry in front of parents.

    But this is no good. I just had my eval today and I need to work on this.

    Does anyone have any advice? Doesn't have to be from teachers - anyone who has advice for an ENFP on how to become more firm and consistent.

    Thanks.
    Set a discipline framework up. It is important for kids to know exactly what you expect from them. Make a list of things you expect and things you won't tolerate and pass it out the first day of class. Of course kids are going to challenge that, so make the first that do an example in front of the class of what not to do. That'll show em. Otherwise, be your awesome self! I had an ENFP professor in college and I was his favorite student. Some kids were afraid of him because he had a really strict discipline/grading system set up that he stuck to (I'm assuming he just had to learn how to be a meanie) but everyone loved him! Just be you and don't let the kids boss you around.
    "In matters of truth and justice, there is no difference between large and small problems, for issues concerning the treatment of people are all the same." - Einstein

  2. #12
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    You have to figure out what your values are, and give words to the internal system you are using to grade everyone. You have to wrap your mind around the general principle and the exceptions you allow to see what they are really driving at. If you are cool with more flexibility, then that's fine. Simply let that come across in the rules you set out.

    "You need to turn the assignment in on Monday by midnight. For every day that it's late you'll lose 5 points." Done. If they send it in at 12:01am, then that's 5 points. I only say that because the flexibility would have been built in to the original deadline, and with the tapering off of the grades when handed in late. But this quickly becomes a game, because if you allow something that's just a little bit late to slide, then you'll win points with the students, but it will also reinforce their behavior, and they'll start pushing it to see how late they can hand assignments in without losing points. So design some rules that capture what you believe, but leave a little bit of flexibility in there (to win over the students) but not so much that they'll start trying to game the system.

    There is nothing wrong with being flexible! I wish more teachers were, and I would have probably done better had my school experience not been idiot teachers trying to impose some shit on me, or trying to force or trick me into becoming this other person, or trying to force that "spark" then taking credit for all of it, robbing me of the essence of what drives me (independently doing great things). Don't make it look like I'm doing all of it, don't hand hold me while I'm doing it, back off, so I can do it myself. I don't need your BS. Fuck these terrible teachers ruining a student's experience. They are good at working the administration and looking the part, but they aren't really good at their jobs. I think you should keep that in mind.

    I wish I had more ENFP teachers. Or perceivers, period. I think I had zero, maybe one.

  3. #13
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lithasblot View Post
    I, of course, have no problem getting kids excited, coming up with cool projects to do, etc. etc.

    My biggest problem is when I have to be "the meanie." I find it so difficult to be tough enough and maintain tough standards all year (I teach High School). It's not that I want to be liked. It's more that I can see all the possibilities and permutations and have trouble deciding that the standard I've set is indeed the final standard. I might allow a kid to change the requirements for a project mid-project if it seems like what s/he wants to do would be really cool! But that messes up my consistency with everyone else.

    Sometimes, too, I "fall" for my students' excuses and let them turn things in late or "forget" to take the late points off because I can't stand the confrontation with the parent that will undoubtedly ensue. I mean, confrontation almost causes me physical pain and I cry when I get angry and I never EVER want to cry in front of parents.

    But this is no good. I just had my eval today and I need to work on this.

    Does anyone have any advice? Doesn't have to be from teachers - anyone who has advice for an ENFP on how to become more firm and consistent.

    Thanks.
    This is actually kinda surreal, but this is exactly how I am as a teacher. The main reason I tend to maintain rules is to just not get in trouble with superiors. I don't see the actual reason for any of it. I take it one step further - I don't ever read my evaluations. I know that I'm evil. I often feel evil about all this.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  4. #14
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    This is actually kinda surreal, but this is exactly how I am as a teacher. The main reason I tend to maintain rules is to just not get in trouble with superiors. I don't see the actual reason for any of it. I take it one step further - I don't ever read my evaluations. I know that I'm evil. I often feel evil about all this.
    Is it being strict or being a fun teacher?

    I'm going for certification in literature or history since I can come up with more activities. If my kids are having fun, I'm having fun…

  5. #15
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    This is a pretty damn old topic
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

    Read

  6. #16
    Riva
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    ^ Yes it is. Goes to show that one cannot expect a bunch of ENFPs to notice the date of the OP.

    I'm just surprised the INFJ missed it.

  7. #17
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
    Is it being strict or being a fun teacher?

    I'm going for certification in literature or history since I can come up with more activities. If my kids are having fun, I'm having fun…
    I know some people can be strict and fun. I'm not even sure my personality is especially "fun", but I create tons of fun materials and activities. I think ENFPs are more fun and dynamic in person than I am, and I might be more organized on average than some ENFPs. Im just not rule oriented. I teach online and anytime students hand in assignments late their reasons are typically quite compelling which can include terrible illness and ER visits. Sometimes it is true, but a friend of mine recently told me than when she was young she used to make up the most dramatic excuses when she would lie. I've just come to figure that if the student was just being lazy in the first place, it is unlikely they will complete the assignment later, and if there was a real issue, then they will probably get it in. I just accept all excuses. I have due dates, but I don't enforce them all that strongly. When I taught in a regular classroom, students would bring their suppers to class, and it just didn't bother me. I'm not socially controlling. I like to teach one-on-one so I don't have to deal with students bothering each other. I do sometimes feel like I'm too laid back socially, but my materials and curriculum designs are top notch.

    Quote Originally Posted by Riva View Post
    ^ Yes it is. Goes to show that one cannot expect a bunch of ENFPs to notice the date of the OP.

    I'm just surprised the INFJ missed it.
    I did see the date, but I just didn't care. [sinister laughter]
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  8. #18
    Riva
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    I did see the date, but I just didn't care. [sinister laughter]
    You are soooooo evil.

    Also I like your current avatar.

  9. #19
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riva View Post
    You are soooooo evil.

    Also I like your current avatar.
    Thanks. This is actually similar to the topic - I just figure if people want to talk about it again, what difference does it make if it's an old thread.

    A lot of education feels to me like building an irrigation system to make sure the water is distributed where the intention is directed. I approach each person like a river carving a path. By looking deeply into a person you can see how they think and learn, and by allowing them freedom in the process, the teacher learns how better to teach that individual. I've had teachers that sculpt me like an intricate flower garden, and it is a beautiful and relevant way to teach, but I'm drawn powerfully to scattering wildflower seeds amongst students and watching where they spring up. I feel like the path of least resistance maximizes effort put into the process. Some people are confused by my approach, and more often than not they value the strict and structured as being superior. I do get some amazing results from some students.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  10. #20
    Entertaining Cracker five sounds's Avatar
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    I work as a speech therapist, and I work with students of all ages (preschool-12th grade). First of all, I only see my students for 30 minutes at a time in groups of two, so I know it's WAY different from being a teacher. I'm a very strong P, and HATE the discipline part of the job. Fortunately, I find that it's more necessary for the younger kids (I'm working on it. I do a sticker chart to reward good behavior throughout the session, and definitely am WAY too flexible and inconsistent with my stickers and prizes). The high schoolers I see are getting 'disciplined' all day long by dozens of authority figures in the school. I find that some adults treat them no different from elementary students, which is offensive and disrespectful. I try to treat the older kids like I'd treat a good friend or family member I'm trying to help. Talk to them like a person, get real about irresponsible behavior that will hurt them, and respect their interests, need to socialize, and ability to think as an individual. That has led, in a few cases, to students trying to push their boundaries, but I just let them know when they've crossed them, and since they feel a sense of mutual respect, they listen.

    As far as rules that are school mandates that seem trivial (i.e. shirt completely tucked in), I adhere to them because that's a rule for me too. I let the kids know that as well. I don't openly agree when they say it's a stupid rule, but I will say that that's not a rule I came up with, but both them and I can get in trouble if we don't follow it.

    One final thought, I agree with the people who have said that more understanding teachers are needed! When I think about my youth as a young, excited ENFP, I was often hurt by authority figures blindly enforcing harsh rules without explanation. I wanted to do well, and also wanted to socialize and explore. Anyone who can appreciate that and respectfully guide a teen through that part of his or her life is doing them a great favor, and is probably influencing them way more than the authoritarians.
    You hem me in -- behind and before;
    you have laid your hand upon me.
    Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
    too lofty for me to attain.

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