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  1. #41
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unkindloving View Post
    I haven't fully read through the posts, but have there been any drastic changes or dramatic situations for you? Have things been okay, but become routine?
    There are various reasons to end up at that point. You need to figure out what the reasoning behind it is and then begin to revamp yourself from that point. It can take a bit of time and you may take 2 steps forward to take 1 back, but progress it progress.

    I've crammed more emotional people-experience into the past 10 years of my life than a lot of people so i feel well-lived in that respect. I've had to revamp my train of thoughts a number of times. It can just take a lot of rationalization, awareness of what makes you happy/will make you happy, and psyching yourself out for that while building your form of a support group.
    My worst time was over the past 5 months. I saw no purpose in life, although understanding it as subjective. I couldn't find any of the motivation or joy. I started to psych myself out, assess what i wanted/needed, and built better friendships (because that's like the ENFJ mantra) and have become more stable for it.
    Back to my almost-tree-hugging self
    Long story short. Walked out of a job from hell, to start a business (I won't tell you what, LOL) which failed before I started making money, and I basically lost every thing, coming very close to being homeless, due to amazingly bad luck (not bad managment or laziness I assure you), only to be sucked back into the very kind of job I was desperate to get away from.
    On top of that, I tried to have a relationship (long distance, but very heart felt from my side of things) with some one, only to have it fail dismally, and am currently facing bankruptcy. Devastion on all fronts, plus I had to move from the city to a small out back town, so I'm a bit lonely and miserable (at least today) to boot. It's difficult times. Nothing I can't handle really though, but everything, my beliefs, my possesions, even friendships got wiped out in one foul sweep.
    Oddly enough, it was the failed relationship that really devasted me. Every thing else I took on the chin up until then, but everything now, just seems so meaningless ATM.
    So I'm reconstructing every thing from the ground up, and yeah, it's a very painful process.
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
    Real life awaits and she is a demanding mistress.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  2. #42
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    Yeah, ice climbing with out anchors, or with really crappy ones, kinda sucks...
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

    INFP, 6w7, IEI

    I accept no responsibility, what so ever, for the fact that I exist; I do, however, accept full responsibility for what I do while I exist.

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  3. #43
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by runvardh View Post
    Yeah, ice climbing with out anchors, or with really crappy ones, kinda sucks...
    Nice anaology, because that's what it feels like some times, LOL.
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
    Real life awaits and she is a demanding mistress.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  4. #44
    Senior Member durentu's Avatar
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    "despair = suffering - meaning. Which is to say that despair is suffering without meaning" - Frankl.

    I too have been looking for an answer to the question of meaning. I'll write mainly to help me gather my thoughts on the subject.

    From existential philosophers, they recognize that meaning is vital. Also that the last bastion of freedom is one's own attitude. He also talks about the will to meaning. Not will to power (nietzsche) or will to pleasure (US constitution), but will to meaning which is to say that we should strive to aim higher than ourselves. To aspire more than ourselves that leads to self-transcendence. Something beyond ourselves.

    Frankl also developed something called logotherapy which is based on three principles
    1. freedom of will
    2. will to meaning
    3. meaning in life.

    He also states that meaning can come from 3 sources. First is by experiential values: experiencing something or someone you value. Second by creative values like through work or deeds. Third by attitudinal values such as virtues and Frankl's example of suffering.

    In contrast to sartre, frankl said that like is not absurd, it is not meaningless. Only that life's meaning cannot be obtained through rational thought alone. As an NT, experiencing positive disintegration as mentioned by Dabrowski, and reevaluating my life until now (30 years old), frankl's statement had a deep impact with me.

    Frankl also said that there is a group neurosis evident in the population. Perhaps due to Freud's work that led people to not merely understand themselves but to psychoanalyze themselves in order to find happiness. He called it paradoxical intention : in such as you aim and direct your activities towards happiness, the more you miss it. Happiness isn't something you can pursue, it is something that must ensue. Happiness is a side effect from a life of meaning.

    With this new understanding, I can start my search for meaning. In the past, I was a great technician in the broadest sense. I was a computer builder, software writer and cellist. These days, it's about food but the meaning is still the same: to create the best piece I can. This is my creative value. However, since I do this only for myself, it doesn't stick very well.

    For attitudinal value, I've adopted a life based on virtue ethics. After studying what deontology and consequentialism is, I found that virtue ethics places the moral thinking on the agent, it places it squarely on me. I identify with austrian economics very much because it speak to results and truth. Truth is a big thing with me.

    Experiential value is the most difficult for me in that I've gotten by pretty well without interacting in the world. Now I know that I must get out of my cave and find something in life that I identify with and something where I don't mind the journey. After some few serious attempts, I still don't understand the point of having a relationship. The concept of family and having children is alien to me as well. Those experiential values are alien to me.

    I have most of the pieces to find meaning in my life and thanks to frankl, I now know where to look for the final piece.

    Having this meaning isn't enough. It's erroneous to think that having meaning in life will bring about prosperity. Although it does offer a great deal of help, I now know that this meaning is my charge. This meaning only makes sense to me and I'm the only one who can fulfill it. Therefore I must be responsible and vigilant to keep and protect it. Why? Because of something Thomas Szasz said.

    "In the animal kingdom, the rule is, eat or be eaten; in the human kingdom, define or be defined. " - Thomas Szasz


    I've found this notion of finding meaning and being responsible for its care everywhere. In philosophy, economics, politics, biology, neuroscience, business, psychology and few others. It's fundamental to the human existence. Those who see their death in their gaze have the most clearest view of meaning than anyone else.

    It's not correct to ask life what is it's meaning, life asks us what our meaning is.

    There some some great frankl vids on youtube.
    "People often say that this or that person has not yet found himself. But the self is not something one finds; it is something one creates." - Thomas Szasz

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