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  1. #1
    Crazy Diamond Billy's Avatar
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    Default Why N can suck, who else is neurotic?

    The nature of something like Ni and I assume Ne are interesting tools to use to decipher what life is and whats going on... but at the same time in conjunction with say Fe it can be kind of crappy.

    The point of this thread is to ask other NFs and maybe NTs but mostly NFs how they deal with the neurotic nature of our minds.

    You know what I mean.

    She didnt just fall asleep and not call... something happened, shes seeing someone, her facebook status says "had a great night" with who? why? Why didnt I get a call? How come she knows so many guys? What are they after? Can I fight them all off? Do I want to compete? Can I compete? Lets see if she texted me, nope.... how about now? nope... how about now? nope...

    over and over and over in my head all night, all day, until I am sleeping or drunk or preoccupied.

    How the hell do we calm this shit down so we can function normally? Its not just with a girl, its with everything.

    What the realtor is late in calling? They must be giving the house to someone else, I wonder if that someone else would be as good a tenant? I wonder if they realize how respectful and easy to work with I can be, is this new yet to be figured person who is stealing away all possibilities of happiness just some scumbag? Its like... how did I get from a late call to some random person I invented in my own mind stealing away things from me?

    When does this shit quiet down? Its getting super tough to deal with. I try to explain the most logical reasons to myself, no shes just running behind, she just fell asleep, but at the same time I have those reasons followed by about 100000000000000000000 possibilities that could also explain whats going on all at the same time. Like seeing all the answers on a big cheat sheet.

    And because I am an F, this is all directly attached to my feelings, self esteem, etc etc etc... its getting quite annoying. I need to come up with some ways to think around this.
    Ground control to Major Tom

  2. #2
    You're fired. Lol. Antimony's Avatar
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    Wow, reading that was certainly interesting, and reading that is like copying the structure of my thoughts. Not neccessarily a good thing, though, because like you said, it was a pain in the ass. Because I can't pass up an opportunity to give advice, I will now.

    There are several things I do.

    1. I write (a lot) until my mind is numb
    2. I distract myself
    3. I convince myself of otherwise using logic and intuition, but that may not help you in your efforts because you already said it didn't work.

    Why don't you go with your gut feeling? Not just your minds alternatives.


    [add]:
    She didnt just fall asleep and not call... something happened, shes seeing someone, her facebook status says "had a great night" with who? why? Why didnt I get a call? How come she knows so many guys? What are they after? Can I fight them all off? Do I want to compete? Can I compete? Lets see if she texted me, nope.... how about now? nope... how about now? nope...
    I don't know if I can ever get around me and this kind of stuff. It annoys me, and I feel bad for being a pain and texting my boyfriend...so I kind of control myself and again, distract myself...somehow. Or feel bad because I feel like he doesn't want to talk to me, or maybe he would rather do other things than talk to me or maybe he is bored of me or maybe maybe maybe, etc etc

    It goes on.

    Wow, that was totally not helpful.
    Excuse me, but does this smell like chloroform to you?

    Always reserve the right to become smarter at a future point in time, for only a fool limits themselves to all they knew in the past. -Alex

  3. #3
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    The nature of something like Ni and I assume Ne are interesting tools to use to decipher what life is and whats going on... but at the same time in conjunction with say Fe it can be kind of crappy.
    ...
    When does this shit quiet down? Its getting super tough to deal with. I try to explain the most logical reasons to myself, no shes just running behind, she just fell asleep, but at the same time I have those reasons followed by about 100000000000000000000 possibilities that could also explain whats going on all at the same time. Like seeing all the answers on a big cheat sheet.
    Oh, I get it. I'm an N focused INtP, so this is pretty much the crap I always deal with.

    I just got a new job, they called me on Tuesday. However, I had information that I had already been marked for the position so I thought I'd hear back quickly. So I submitted the paperwork two weeks prior, then heard nothing... no feedback... and no one really to ask. There were also a few areas on the app I was unsure about, so then I wondered if I screwed it up in some way myself. My mind was racing through zillions of possibilities and fretting immensely, because without knowing the truth I had no way to know what to do next, and all I could do was detach from it and wait. Finally, the day before, I e-mailed my contact to ask if she had everything she needed. I still didn't hear back, but a day later I got the offer.

    Anyway, this happens with everything. N is focused on connections between data, of which there are many, and at least for me, weighing them in terms of potential validity. When I have no concrete info to go on to help me lend weight to some possibilities, I can only go by hunches, experience, and end up reading into lack of data as well.

    The T thing helps me some. As I said above, I just detached and waited. Meanwhile, I am "weighing" possibilities too -- "This one seems about 20% likely, this one probably 45%" etc. That helps me focus on the most probable and ignore the less probable... If you can't do that, it can be very difficult. The only other solution is to get more information somehow, so you can see the real data and not the potential data.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #4
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    I think this is very common in Ne as well.

    Most ENFPs I know will think other people dont like us. Or we may see bits of a convo that seems negative and then wonder-"was that about me?" (This is very funny as even here I will have read a thread, Ne'd a thought of "was that negative comment meant for me?", then seen another enfp actually post "Are you talking about me?") We may see others acting angry and go "Oh, I messed something up and it is all my fault." If we dont get enough affirmation we think "oh, I must not be doing a very good job."

    I see all of this very much in an enfp coworker I have and I try and talk her through it. When young I did this all the time-I saw that I misinterrpretted enough so that I started automatically inserting a rationalization step in between.

    "alexa seems really unhappy. It must be me."
    "That is pretty unlikely and if it is well, she will tell you so."
    "but what if it was because I didnt do X, Y, or Z?"
    "If she needs those things done and is that unhappy, she needs to directly speak up and say so, otherwise she needs to be responsible for her own unhappiness. You cannot bear the burdens of others unhappiness"


    Now honestly, this is kinda passing the buck. It allows me to rationalize my way out of the 90% of the time that Ne will make me act neurotic-but that last 10% of the time, it likely is real and I just ignore it. I think it works as if it really is an issue, the person either gets over it or they say something. Otherwise I typically dont have close friendships with them (which means I dont have many close Fe dom friends as this unspoken stuff matters a lot there I think).

    (I have seen this funny thing in a few entps and even some intjs under massive stress. They think people are plotting against them. My entp best friend says that when she feels like others are plotting against her, she knows she needs to take a few days off work. The intjs seem to become rather combative. But small numbers of both so the observation is just a correlation, not proven)

  5. #5
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    not just Ns there... try a negative Ti-Fe loop

    (at job interview...

    omg she's not smiling, have I done something wrong that will offend her? *then ponder all the things I did wrong up until this point* she hates me... I know it! )

    of course a nice Se outlet like finding a punching bag and beating it senseless can be a good thing at times
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  6. #6
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    It has to do with what you own.

    There are three kinds of business in the world:
    1. God's business.
    2. Other people's business.
    3. Your business.


    Guess which one you own?

    You can guess and ruminate and obsess about all sorts of things in your life, yet all of your guessing and obsessing will get you nowhere, because you don't own those things. You inadvertently attach your heart to everything around you, and every fluctuation of reality causes palpitations.

    Now for the MBTI-speak. The trick is understanding what Ni is good at. Ni is good at figuring things out: if you have something well-defined, and it's under your control at least to a degree, Ni will understand it and allow you to deal with it extremely effectively. If the something is out of your control, then it will allow you to make predictions to some degree, and you can prepare yourself to some degree, but further worrying doesn't resolve the matter.

    If you have ten boulders rolling down the hill at you, it's very easy to get worried and running in all sorts of random directions as you try to predict where the boulders will roll and how to avoid them. Instead of doing that, be patient. 9 of the boulders won't even come close to you, and you don't need to dodge them or worry about them. The 10th boulder is easy to dodge, because you waited and took action at an appropriate time, when the problem became yours to deal with.

    Yes, it can be difficult to gain this attitude. I've always had it to a degree, but certain events ingrained it even further. I've been through a lot in my life, losing jobs, my Mom, my wife ... things that I'd not wish on anyone else. The main thing I learned from all of this is that I can handle just about everything that life throws at me. It doesn't matter what goes wrong, I simply deal with it when it happens. I have a plan for dealing with it, and it is handled expeditiously, and then it isn't a problem any more.

    That's why I am never worried about what "might" happen, or wonder what people are "really" thinking, and so on. I can deal with it when it becomes my business.

  7. #7
    Crazy Diamond Billy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    It has to do with what you own.

    There are three kinds of business in the world:
    1. God's business.
    2. Other people's business.
    3. Your business.


    Guess which one you own?

    You can guess and ruminate and obsess about all sorts of things in your life, yet all of your guessing and obsessing will get you nowhere, because you don't own those things. You inadvertently attach your heart to everything around you, and every fluctuation of reality causes palpitations.

    Now for the MBTI-speak. The trick is understanding what Ni is good at. Ni is good at figuring things out: if you have something well-defined, and it's under your control at least to a degree, Ni will understand it and allow you to deal with it extremely effectively. If the something is out of your control, then it will allow you to make predictions to some degree, and you can prepare yourself to some degree, but further worrying doesn't resolve the matter.

    If you have ten boulders rolling down the hill at you, it's very easy to get worried and running in all sorts of random directions as you try to predict where the boulders will roll and how to avoid them. Instead of doing that, be patient. 9 of the boulders won't even come close to you, and you don't need to dodge them or worry about them. The 10th boulder is easy to dodge, because you waited and took action at an appropriate time, when the problem became yours to deal with.

    Yes, it can be difficult to gain this attitude. I've always had it to a degree, but certain events ingrained it even further. I've been through a lot in my life, losing jobs, my Mom, my wife ... things that I'd not wish on anyone else. The main thing I learned from all of this is that I can handle just about everything that life throws at me. It doesn't matter what goes wrong, I simply deal with it when it happens. I have a plan for dealing with it, and it is handled expeditiously, and then it isn't a problem any more.

    That's why I am never worried about what "might" happen, or wonder what people are "really" thinking, and so on. I can deal with it when it becomes my business.
    Unfortunately its not quite as simple as that... I see the rational and logical angle of the situation(s) too, but you have to also admit that people can and are wired differently... in MBTI speak, your Te over my Fe is a MASSIVE difference.

    Especially with your Fi to back it up... the Ni - Fe- Ti loop if not positively charged is extremely paranoid especially when you are wearing blinders and cant see the boulders coming down the hill.
    Ground control to Major Tom

  8. #8
    Senior Member Malkavia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    I think this is very common in Ne as well.

    Most ENFPs I know will think other people dont like us. Or we may see bits of a convo that seems negative and then wonder-"was that about me?" (This is very funny as even here I will have read a thread, Ne'd a thought of "was that negative comment meant for me?", then seen another enfp actually post "Are you talking about me?") We may see others acting angry and go "Oh, I messed something up and it is all my fault." If we dont get enough affirmation we think "oh, I must not be doing a very good job."
    This. Is. Me.

    and it sucks. My god it is great reading this thread and knowing Im not the only one who has a thought process like this.

    Ive been working on it for a long time, and cant seem to get over what has been mentioned in this thread.

    +1 to this whole thread. Where does this thought process come from? How can you stop it? I feel like I just found a treasure trove of information that Ive been looking for forever.

  9. #9
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    Unfortunately its not quite as simple as that... I see the rational and logical angle of the situation(s) too, but you have to also admit that people can and are wired differently... in MBTI speak, your Te over my Fe is a MASSIVE difference.

    Especially with your Fi to back it up... the Ni - Fe- Ti loop if not positively charged is extremely paranoid especially when you are wearing blinders and cant see the boulders coming down the hill.
    Oh, yeah, I forgot: my Fi makes my emotions imperturbable. :rolli:

    As I said before, it is a matter of understanding what Ni is good at.

    If you're imagining all sorts of horrible possibilities, and you aren't keeping track of how many come to pass and how many don't, you won't understand or train your Ni to work for you.

    Part of what I was getting at is that the real life experiences are part of what trains Ni. I know when its predictions are reliable, and I know when they're unreliable. So what if you can't see any boulders coming down the hill? Did any of them hit you? No? Then all that worrying was untrained Ni.

    Figure out which of your intuitions are reliable and which are unreliable. Know them and understand them. It's doable, with time. Once Ni is trained up, it becomes a matter of experience, and you'll just think, "Oh. That."

    No, it's not easy. Everything unfamiliar in life will still cause you worry. The way to master your Ni is to make those unfamiliar things familiar.

  10. #10
    You're fired. Lol. Antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    not just Ns there... try a negative Ti-Fe loop

    (at job interview...

    omg she's not smiling, have I done something wrong that will offend her? *then ponder all the things I did wrong up until this point* she hates me... I know it! )

    of course a nice Se outlet like finding a punching bag and beating it senseless can be a good thing at times
    *ahem*

    YOU ARE AN N!

    *relates*


    Is there anyway out of this? I relate to what the ENFPs have stated: was that comment meant for me, etc
    Excuse me, but does this smell like chloroform to you?

    Always reserve the right to become smarter at a future point in time, for only a fool limits themselves to all they knew in the past. -Alex

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