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Thread: INFJs

  1. #81
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    sure. i like that response.

    although i wouldn't be so sure that you fully understand Fe or Fi.

  2. #82
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    sure. i like that response.

    although i wouldn't be so sure that you fully understand Fe or Fi.

    Must I?
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  3. #83
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Must I?
    heh, no. i guess that wasn't your point at all, either.

  4. #84
    Senior Member lazyhappy's Avatar
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    i love infjs. i view they are the best "feeler" type.
    Not only is fe better then fi (emo) but thier 3rd function is Ti (the best function XD). My INFJ is one of the smartest people i know. and i believe that she is way wiser then alot of Ts i met. Brilliant revolutionists and people were infjs such as Martin Luther King Jr, Dr. Phil (i think he's one), my best friend and my therapist XD...
    and the J doesn't make them closed-minded at all, like alot of the other j's I met... and in fact, the INFJ combination of traits is one of the best combinations i've seen. INFJs are brilliant but kind and revolutionary!

    edit-
    and sorry if i'm putting down other types... i'm tired (that's a good enough excuse... i guess...) and sorry if i seemed freaky but... i'm in a weird mood for i just realised to the extent of which infj's are cool... Even though i got Einstien's type or whatever, Martin Luther cared more, sacrificed more and tried harder... i view that as more beautiful then some smart prodigy. (but yet that is my opinion)... and you are cool too brit o.o... and adam sandler (why not)... i'll throw you in there...
    Last edited by lazyhappy; 12-26-2007 at 05:17 AM.

  5. #85
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lazyhappy View Post
    i love infjs. i view they are the best "feeler" type.
    Not only is fe better then fi (emo) but thier 3rd function is Ti (the best function XD). My INFJ is one of the smartest people i know. and i believe that she is way wiser then alot of Ts i met. Brilliant revolutionists and people were infjs such as Martin Luther King Jr, Dr. Phil (i think he's one), my best friend and my therapist XD...
    and the J doesn't make them closed-minded at all, like alot of the other j's I met... and in fact the INFJ combination of traits is one of the best combinations i've seen. INFJs are brilliant but kind and revolutionary!
    Why, thank you so much! I appreciate your endorsement of our type. It won't go unnoticed.

  6. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by lazyhappy View Post
    i love infjs. i view they are the best "feeler" type.
    Not only is fe better then fi (emo) but thier 3rd function is Ti (the best function XD). My INFJ is one of the smartest people i know. and i believe that she is way wiser then alot of Ts i met. Brilliant revolutionists and people were infjs such as Martin Luther King Jr, Dr. Phil (i think he's one), my best friend and my therapist XD...
    and the J doesn't make them closed-minded at all, like alot of the other j's I met... and in fact, the INFJ combination of traits is one of the best combinations i've seen. INFJs are brilliant but kind and revolutionary!

    edit-
    and sorry if i'm putting down other types... i'm tired (that's a good enough excuse... i guess...) and sorry if i seemed freaky but... i'm in a weird mood for i just realised to the extent of which infj's are cool... Even though i got Einstien's type or whatever, Martin Luther cared more, sacrificed more and tried harder... i view that as more beautiful then some smart prodigy. (but yet that is my opinion)... and you are cool too brit o.o... and adam sandler (why not)... i'll throw you in there...

    (WOW... i just realised what this topic is about- "the Fi effect". pff... STFU BlueWing, god damn.)
    As much as I agree with you that most INFJs are awesome, I have been working and learning a lot from one in the past year, I doubt Dr. Phil is an INFJ (and that's a compliment to INFJs), hardly think of him as a revolutionary or in any way comparable to MLK.

  7. #87
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lazyhappy View Post
    i love infjs. i view they are the best "feeler" type.
    Not only is fe better then fi (emo) but thier 3rd function is Ti (the best function XD). My INFJ is one of the smartest people i know. and i believe that she is way wiser then alot of Ts i met. Brilliant revolutionists and people were infjs such as Martin Luther King Jr, Dr. Phil (i think he's one), my best friend and my therapist XD...
    and the J doesn't make them closed-minded at all, like alot of the other j's I met... and in fact, the INFJ combination of traits is one of the best combinations i've seen. INFJs are brilliant but kind and revolutionary!

    edit-
    and sorry if i'm putting down other types... i'm tired (that's a good enough excuse... i guess...) and sorry if i seemed freaky but... i'm in a weird mood for i just realised to the extent of which infj's are cool... Even though i got Einstien's type or whatever, Martin Luther cared more, sacrificed more and tried harder... i view that as more beautiful then some smart prodigy. (but yet that is my opinion)... and you are cool too brit o.o... and adam sandler (why not)... i'll throw you in there...

    (WOW... i just realised what this topic is about- "the Fi effect". pff... STFU BlueWing, god damn.)

    The Fi effect is akin to the Fe following Ni to the realm of Introversion. This is where the INFJ is much distinct from the EFJ types. For this reason we often see INFJs write poetry and novels, and discern emotion in depth--much like the aforementioned INFPs(in my INFP profile---Kierkegaard, Virgil, Shakespeare)--Representatives of the INFJ type would be Goethe, Dostoevksy and Camus.

    No doubt the EFJs, especially ENFJs have the ability to write poetry and novels (discern the human element in depth like the INFs do) however, because their F is aimed at outwards (more at activity rather than contemplation) they are less likely to engage in such activities.

    That is the aforementioned Fi effect indeed, or in depth scrutiny of the human element. Essentially, what the two groups of authors had in common is in depth scrutiny of Feeling. This needs not be attributed strictly to Fi, but to the interplay of Feeling and Intuition. Introversion does help, but it is not a necessary factor. For this reason, many ENFJs, like Ivan Turgenev for example, have also mastered the enterprise of scrutiny of Feeling, as well as ENFPs,(Leo Tolstoy). However, Introversion did prove to be a slight advantage as the INFs managed to probe deeper. As we clearly see that Virgil(INFP) and Goethe(INFJ) had powerful insights into human nature, as well as profound and careful scrutinty of the phenomena they set sight on. Now, their Extroverted counterparts--Tolstoy(ENFP) and Turgenev, seemed to lack the profundity and cautiousness of thought that the previous two had.

    Thus, the Fi effect that I see in the INFJs is the ability to probe deeply and scrutinize carefully. This should not be attributed strictly to Fi, but to the factor of Introversion. (Technically the ENFs with a well developed secondary function could also learn to do this, though it comes the easiest to the most Introverted of Idealists. Hence, the easieast to the INFP and second easiest to the INFJ.)

    So, you'd be happy to replace the Fi effect with the Introversion factor in addition to the interfuse of Intuition and Feeling.

    *P.S

    Next time you come here make sure you leave your value judgments and baseless intuitions at the door because I just cant be made to suffer fools.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyhappy View Post
    Not only is fe better then fi (emo) but thier 3rd function is Ti (the best function XD).]

    You're using the word smart in a fashion radically biased towards the NT temperament. Being smart in the way Virgil and Shakespeare were has little to do with Thinking. This is the respect that the INFJs are 'smartest' in. Indeed smarter than other NF types in the 'NT way' because of their Thinking faculty.

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyhappy View Post
    Brilliant revolutionists and people were infjs such as Martin Luther ).]
    INFJs can become quite the powerful political force because of their commitment to their vision (Ni) and drive to transduce it to external world phenomena.

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyhappy View Post
    and the J doesn't make them closed-minded at all, like alot of the other j's I met... and in fact, the INFJ combination of traits is one of the best combinations i've seen. INFJs are brilliant but kind and revolutionary!).]
    J has almost nothing to do with close-mindness. The code J translates as-Extroverted Judgment(applying judgment to the external world)--or Extroverted Thinking or Extroverted Feeling.

    Close mindedness is associated with the lack of openness to ideas. That is property of Sensation, or lack of Intuition to perceive ideas with.

    SJs, the least Intuitive of all are often reviled for being closed-minded. They are also known for having strong Judging tendencies. Yet, their closed-mindedness is about their Si (which eclipses Intuition) and not their Extroverted Judgment.

    Now, if we take the same--keep the Extroverted Judgment and make them Intuitive--thus the INJs. We notice that the INTJ and the INFJ are most open to ideas, whilst the ISTJ and ISFJ the least.

    The INFJ and the INTJ, because of their in depth scrutiny of Intuition (factor of Introversion), in this regard outdo (they are more open to ideas) their dominant Extroverted Counterparts (ENPs).

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyhappy View Post
    INFJs are brilliant but kind and revolutionary!).]
    The dominant Introverted Intuition gives the INFJ the radically individualistic and perceptive mindset necessary to fit the above description.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  8. #88
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    *P.S

    Next time you come here make sure you leave your value judgments and baseless intuitions at the door because I just cant be made to suffer fools.
    Value judgments and baseless intuitions? Perhaps some NT would be kind enough to provide definitions and examples of these. This counterargument seems to be fairly common despite often being unsubstantiated.

    I find it hard to believe that the subjective experience and interpretation of one person is any more or less subjective than that of another, especially when discussing theory.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Now, if we take the same--keep the Extroverted Judgment and make them Intuitive--thus the INJs. We notice that the INTJ and the INFJ are most open to ideas, whilst the ISTJ and ISFJ the least.
    Haha... I never thought of it that way. It makes me wonder just what my ISFJ mom has gone through having an INTJ son and an INFJ daughter.

  10. #90
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Value judgments and baseless intuitions? Perhaps some NT would be kind enough to provide definitions and examples of these. This counterargument seems to be fairly common despite often being unsubstantiated.

    I find it hard to believe that the subjective experience and interpretation of one person is any more or less subjective than that of another, especially when discussing theory.

    No, I do not think that all value judgments are inane and all intuitions are baseless.

    Value judgments (F) are good at making person-centered decisions. Hence a value judgment that has substance is one that discovers what is going in our hearts or the hearts of other people. Many NF poets and novelists have demonstrated mastery with this skill--as is well known such works are renowned for having brilliant insights into human nature and human relationships.

    Intuitions help us collect information through abstract perception (Jung plausibly argues that this faculty is unconscious, I can explain why I embrace this position--though better save this for later.. as this is only tangentially relevant to our discussion.)

    Hence, in order to play our intuitions into the realm of conscious use, they must be interfused with a conscious faculty--thinking or feeling. In this regard all Intuitions are baseless, as they are unintelligible, yet the can become intelligible after we have applied the proper judgment to our hunches.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I mentioned value judgments are best for discerning interpersonal notions. Does this mean that they are but lame for impersonal problems? Not necessarily, as many NFs have shown us that it is possible to derive insights about all things through feelings. I deem for this method to be an option, yet less reliable because it is subjective (not as easily seperated from our personal predispositions as Logic, and this process is more difficult to verify--as it cannot be laid out to the open for all to see, as easily as a mathematical equation. (T-logic)


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    When an NT calls a feeling baseless, they usually mean that the Feeling either was not properly seperated from the person's biases, thus by reading their claim--we learn more about that person, rather than the subject---yet such a person insists that their claim be accepted as the truth. (Or so the NT perceives the last part).

    Thus, in this regard the NT is not saying that your feelings are not valid, or that you're wrong for having felt this way, but simply that your feeling-based notion does not evince the truth.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    In regards to my second point--how Feelings are not as easily put out to the open as Thoughts and because of this the insight is difficult to verify. Hence, if we do not manage to verify the insight--we must accept it on trust. This is inconsistenct with the NT epistemic ethic of critical analysis.(Or only believing in things that we, on our own endeavor have ensured to be true.)

    *This leaves us with one serious problem to ponder*.

    The Feeling based insight may very well hold true, yet because the Feeler cannot get it out to the open the NT may not understand what the NF has in mind. As well as, the NT may entertain an intuition or a feeling that the Feeling based insight is sound, however, if he cannot ascertain of this being the case by virtue of his method of critical analysis, he will be forced to reject it. This does not mean that he dismisses it entirely. If on his own thinking he later discovers an argument for the point the Feeler made, he will embrace it. Not because of a change of heart, but because based on his own Thinking (not in a vernacular sense of the word, but in Jungian.)--he has come to believe that the insight was sound. I do that a lot.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

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