User Tag List

First 12345 Last

Results 21 to 30 of 109

Thread: INFJs

  1. #21
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    1
    Posts
    4,223

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    And though I don't personally believe that it is useless to be aware of other's feelings, it doesn't really matter, I am. I can't help it. It's not even a virtue, it's just a trait. For good or for ill, my feelings are tied to the feelings of those around me and that means if I want to feel good, I can't go around making people feel bad. Sometimes that means observing social conventions even when I do not believe they have value beyond maintaining harmony. I do not observe the conventions because I care about the conventions, they are just tools in my toolbox. I observe them because I care about people and about how they feel whether I want to or not. It is not a selfless thing that I do, but it is certainly not insincere.
    couldn't have put it better myself.

  2. #22
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    MBTI
    OMNi
    Posts
    2,790

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Correct. In this thread I am predominantly concerned with very unhealthy INFJs.
    I have to agree with Fineline. When dealing with unhealthy and/or immature people, type really doesn't matter. Typically you can only ignore it or complain about it. Neither is likely to cause a person to change nor improve your ability to cope with the annoyance. This is a case where having Fe can actually be helpful. It keeps you from making the situation worse.

  3. #23
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w6 so/sx
    Posts
    3,467

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    By showing that Fe can indeed be abused by its owners, you raise questions about its sincerity in general.).
    I did not make this charge.




    Destructive criticism is property of Ti and not Ne. Unhealthy INTPs criticize not to undercut others, but simply to point out fault. Since they are so into their T they either misunderstand or disregard the interpersonal implications their actions carry. So you cant say they trash people.

    Could there be Ne cant? Sure, but thats more a property of ENPs than INPs, as that would be merely sharing information or asking for perspectives of others just to lay them out to the table without doing deep brainstorming. Can you convict me of this? Certainly, as often I ask for perspectives of others without really taking them in consideration. Though the destructive criticism bit, I take it was much more of your concern than that. This you've misattributed to unhealthy Ne when it should have been attributed to Ti.


    Now, a good question to ask is, why is it that INTPs who supposedly dont mean to undercut others with their criticism strike feelers as maliciously and unmistakably destructive. Because the Feeling function is negative (our inferior functions tend to be negative because we tend to have an attitude of discomfort towards as they come to us with great difficulty) and hence negative feelings are directed at the object of INTPs' criticisms.

    But thats long in the past for me, I am well aware of the impact my comments carry on others. Personally, I enjoy criticizing very much and I dont think there is anything wrong with it as long as you are aware of the interpersonal ramifications of your actions. As well as take the proper means to prevent harm from ensuing as a result. I dont think that a fetish for criticizing is evidence of neurosis.


    I am not trashing the whole type of INFJ, just their neurotic representatives. You could draw a parallel to similar ridicules of other types.


    *Again, in this thread I am not asking for help with how to deal with INFJs in general, but only with the very unhealthy ones. They are the ones afflicted with the cant problem.


    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    Again, it sounds like Ne cant coming from an immature INTP: Your Ti is very self-involved; your Ne makes the world seem very intrusive and puts you on the defensive; so you use Ne neurotically to dream up ways to attack and minimize the biggest bugaboo of the INTPs: Fe. ).
    The reason why I cant deal with neurotic Fe is not so much that it is intrusive but more because it is simply destitute of true depth of feeling. I'd be kidding myself if I thought I could have a relationship with such a person, as then I'd have to befool myself into thinking when its manifest to me that they're putting on an act.

    Keep in mind, neurotic Fe, as I use the term is by definition what you call 'abused by its owners'.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  4. #24
    Mamma said knock you out Mempy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    2,226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    They aren't all like that. Promise.

    And though I don't personally believe that it is useless to be aware of other's feelings, it doesn't really matter, I am. I can't help it. It's not even a virtue, it's just a trait. For good or for ill, my feelings are tied to the feelings of those around me and that means if I want to feel good, I can't go around making people feel bad. Sometimes that means observing social conventions even when I do not believe they have value beyond maintaining harmony. I do not observe the conventions because I care about the conventions, they are just tools in my toolbox. I observe them because I care about people and about how they feel whether I want to or not. It is not a selfless thing that I do, but it is certainly not insincere.
    I do this frequently as well, and I consider it a skill and a strength to know what people like and to be properly aware of social niceties and conventions. I think it is a skill that one will not abuse as long as one uses it within reason. When using such a skill, one must maintain a healthy sense of self-worth. In other words, one must not honor social conventions simply to get love and attention. One must already feel worthy of love and attention, so that one will not have a desire to seek it by "molding" themselves to society's expectations. F types in particular are in danger of honoring people's wishes simply so they are positively regarded. I think this may be what Bluewing is referring to. But I'm an INFP with domFi and /I/ am /especially/ at risk for this behavior. It's not just Fe types. I think we all, in some way, are probably susceptible to it.

    People who fritter around trying to please everyone, sitting on too many councils, listening to too many people's problems, and wearing themselves out in the process, do seem fake and insincere. This is overcompensation for something lacking - love, acceptance, etc. People who sacrifice themselves looking for the approval of others have not realized that the most important rejection they have already borne is the rejection of themselves.

  5. #25
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w6 so/sx
    Posts
    3,467

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mempy View Post
    I do this frequently as well, and I consider it a skill and a strength to know what people like and to be properly aware of social niceties and conventions. I think it is a skill that one will not abuse as long as one uses it within reason. When using such a skill, one must maintain a healthy sense of self-worth. In other words, one must not honor social conventions simply to get love and attention. One must already feel worthy of love and attention, so that one will not have a desire to seek it by "molding" themselves to society's expectations. F types in particular are in danger of honoring people's wishes simply so they are positively regarded. I think this may be what Bluewing is referring to. But I'm an INFP with domFi and /I/ am /especially/ at risk for this behavior. It's not just Fe types. I think we all, in some way, are probably susceptible to it.

    People who fritter around trying to please everyone, sitting on too many councils, listening to too many people's problems, and wearing themselves out in the process, do seem fake and insincere. This is overcompensation for something lacking - love, acceptance, etc. People who sacrifice themselves looking for the approval of others have not realized that the most important rejection they have already borne is the rejection of themselves.


    Could not agree more. Yet, the issue I've invoked was not so much about them looking for approval, but misunderstanding a mere appearance of approval for the essence of approval itself.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  6. #26
    Mamma said knock you out Mempy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    2,226

    Default

    but misunderstanding a mere appearance of approval for the essence of approval itself.
    Well, when you're needy, you take what you can get. It's arguable whether the approval people bestow on you when you actively seek their approval is the real thing, or just pity. The bottom line is that when you are needy and don't feel valuable, you can never get enough of a substitute. The praise other people give you when you're insecure never really touches you deeply, because they are not complimenting or approving of you, but of the self-image you have constructed to catch that praise and respect. How can someone approve of something they are never allowed to see? Moreover, people who construct a self-image to gain approval deceive themselves into thinking that they ARE their self-image, so they're out of touch with their authentic selves as much as everyone else is. They love the ideal image of themselves, not themselves.

  7. #27
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    9w1
    Socionics
    INFj None
    Posts
    9,827

    Default

    Well if you're talking about that kind of thing, like others have mentioned, you're just dealing with an immature person and that is simply the way in which immaturity is likely to manifest in this type. It's just something we have to grow out of or rip ourselves out of, thrashing and screaming, just like any other person emerging from an unhealthy pattern. Maturity is obviously a process and not everyone undergoes it at the same rate or at all. You can't really do anything about that.

    You can choose to be patient with the person and look on them with some level of compassion because they are probably not in a great place and/or you can try to stay away from them as much as possible, but you are probably going to experience annoyance no matter what.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  8. #28
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    MBTI
    OMNi
    Posts
    2,790

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    [/B]

    Could not agree more. Yet, the issue I've invoked was not so much about them looking for approval, but misunderstanding a mere appearance of approval for the essence of approval itself.
    Why all this faking it? If you don't approve of someone then it does nothing to improve interpersonal relations to pretend. To the contrary, it is a detriment because any communication is then a lie. It's pretty dichotomous. Either you approve of someone or you don't. It would seem pretty insincere to me to pretend to appreciate someone.

  9. #29
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w6 so/sx
    Posts
    3,467

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Why all this faking it? If you don't approve of someone then it does nothing to improve interpersonal relations to pretend. To the contrary, it is a detriment because any communication is then a lie. It's pretty dichotomous. Either you approve of someone or you don't. It would seem pretty insincere to me to pretend to appreciate someone.
    Their crime, in this respect is against the essence of feeling. They dont think about what most conduces to the soundness of a relationship, they only think about all the things they are supposed to do in order to fulfill their role.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  10. #30
    Mamma said knock you out Mempy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    2,226

    Default

    Why all this faking it? If you don't approve of someone then it does nothing to improve interpersonal relations to pretend. To the contrary, it is a detriment because any communication is then a lie. It's pretty dichotomous. Either you approve of someone or you don't. It would seem pretty insincere to me to pretend to appreciate someone.
    Fs in particular are in peril of falling into these kinds of patterns with others. They don't want disharmony or to hurt others' feelings, so they dampen down their criticisms or don't give them at all.

    I agree with Cafe that everyone has maturing to do. If one cannot just ignore an immature person or learn to empathize with them, one probably has some maturing to do oneself.

    What are you looking for in this thread, Blue? Some insight into immature INFJs?

Similar Threads

  1. [INFJ] INFJs - anger and upset?
    By Eileen in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 70
    Last Post: 05-06-2015, 09:28 AM
  2. [INFJ] INFJ Compatibility - INFJ's Romantic Match?
    By shadowstormz in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 339
    Last Post: 07-17-2014, 06:09 AM
  3. [INFJ] Psychic INFJ's?
    By shadowstormz in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 52
    Last Post: 04-19-2012, 11:18 AM
  4. [INFJ] INFJ organizational strategies
    By Scruffy1123 in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 03-14-2009, 02:45 AM
  5. [INFJ] Any INFJ girls?
    By findthejake in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 157
    Last Post: 05-11-2008, 04:58 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO