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  1. #11
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrRandom View Post
    I can't get past your starting post. It feels extremely biased, as if seeking an outlet or justification for anger caused by some INFJ guy(s) in your life.
    Mr. Random, I have considered what you said and re-read my OP. I am forced to disagree with your conclusions.

    I fully acknowledge that my observation was based solely on my anecdotal experiences and not empirical research. I also freely admit that I was speaking in gross generalizations and that obviously there are many subtleties that could not be covered in the brief post necessitated by this online venue. In other words, I never pretended that my OP was anything other than a personal observation about the INFJ men I've encountered. Part of why I posted my observations was to see if anyone else had noticed the same thing. I was seeking more information, not drawing a conclusion.

    I do not carry around anger about the INFJ men in my life. I am actually quite fond of all the INFJ males in my acquaintance... even the ones that occasionally need a little head whackin'.

    I love to observe people and learn from watching their behavior. For a couple of years now (ever since I began delving into MBTI once again) I've noticed some major "issues" going on with the otherwise super cool INFJ men I know. I wasn't looking to reach this conclusion. It has smacked me over the head several times.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrRandom View Post
    And being an all-around arrogant jerk has nothing to do with type. That doesn't even mean anything: It's a collection of all the negative things people believe such a person would do.
    Being arrogant can happen to anyone of any type. You are correct. But that doesn't mean that some types aren't more prone to arrogance than others. (Ever talked to an unhealthy INTJ. I rest my case.) Most INFJs I know aren't arrogant. But several male INFJs I know are arrogant in certain areas. They just know they are right about certain things and aren't afraid of telling you about the correctness of their opinion... and they do this to a weird, unhealthy, indicative-to-me-that-they're-afraid-of-being-weak kind of extreme way. In other words, because they feel weak or are afraid of being perceived as weak, they are overcompensating. Or at least that's my read on it.

    But hell, what type doesn't have their weak points. I'm an ENFP. I'm late on a regular basis, have a sporadic attention to detail, and sometimes don't follow through on stuff. Let me be the first to hold up my hand and call myself an idiot.

    We're all idiots really. That's the great thing about MBTI. We can see the boxes we're (and others) are stuck in that we didn't even know were there.

    - Esoteric Wench

    "We've all got the inner knucklehead. It's good fodder for stories." - Joel Coen

  2. #12
    Crazy Diamond Billy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrRandom View Post
    I certainly don't love that. Lack of compassion in INFJs? Seriously? I've never heard that one before.

    But on the topic itself, in one type description it was said that INFJ is the most unmasculine type and that's why many INFJ men compensate by becoming more stubborn. I can believe that. It might also surface as obsessive-compulsive behavior (something I've noticed in myself). I think you might have a point with that shadow thing, too.

    However, I can't get past your starting post. It feels extremely biased, as if seeking an outlet or justification for anger caused by some INFJ guy(s) in your life. Being an INFJ male is never a bad thing, just like being any other type and/or gender combination of thereof isn't. Their bad qualities are not at all worse than anyone else's. They're just different. And because INFJ men have more feminine personalities, they adapt to become slightly more masculine to fit better into our culture. I consider that adaptive, not maladaptive.

    And being an all-around arrogant jerk has nothing to do with type. That doesn't even mean anything: It's a collection of all the negative things people believe such a person would do.
    Some of us cope with our lack of masculinity with drugs and posturing tho lol!

    Its true however, I always knew I was deeply in touch with my female side internally. I always liked feelings and romance and all that sensitive stuff that maakes most dudes cringe, I consume that awkward butterfly feeling like an energy pack ha!
    Ground control to Major Tom

  3. #13
    Junior Member The Curator's Avatar
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    The difference between Male and Female INFJs that I have noticed is that Males are much more forward but not so much that you could even call it forward. A better way to express it is that female INFJs are much more subtle in their ways. I really feel it comes from the men who don't fit into what is the expected "Manly role" of American society specifically that they develop a much more stronger stance in their INFJs specifically their Fe well, I can't speak for all but I feel that is what has happened to me. I am much more expressive in my own ways with my Fe and caring in general.

    Even further into it, I have some friends who have had terrible run ins with "bad" male INFJs. I think it has a lot to do with so many possibilities of not developing in a good light, becoming bitter, jaded and losing hope in humanity things like that.
    "It is an easy thing to find a man who often, opens his mouth but rarely says anything. It is a difficult thing to find a man who rarely speaks but says volumes" - Unknown Author

    "A coward is incapable of exhibiting love; it is the prerogative of the brave."
    - Mohandas Gandhi

    "Human Salvation lies in the hands of the creatively Maladjusted" - Martin Luther King Jr.

  4. #14
    One day and the next Rainne's Avatar
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    I have never seen my INFJ friend get angry. Except when he's had a few drinks then he starts cursing and challenging people to fights.
    Weathergirl: District 38 is sunny. Slight rock showers this morning. Chance of rock showers into the afternoon—20 percent. District 39 is cloudy. Chance of rock showers this afternoon—10 percent.
    Edward: Bebop here here! Alright woo hoo!
    Weathergirl: Chance of rock showers today upgraded to 90 percent.
    Edward: Really.

  5. #15
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    Sometimes I'd say something to get my INFJ friend riled up, soz I could watch him do this: :steam:



  6. #16
    One day and the next Rainne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sLiPpY View Post
    Sometimes I'd say something to get my INFJ friend riled up, soz I could watch him do this: :steam:


    it's funny to watch them rage

    they don't show it but you know they're angry
    Weathergirl: District 38 is sunny. Slight rock showers this morning. Chance of rock showers into the afternoon—20 percent. District 39 is cloudy. Chance of rock showers this afternoon—10 percent.
    Edward: Bebop here here! Alright woo hoo!
    Weathergirl: Chance of rock showers today upgraded to 90 percent.
    Edward: Really.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainne View Post
    it's funny to watch them rage

    they don't show it but you know they're angry
    That's the best part.

  8. #18
    You have a choice! 21%'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    Being arrogant can happen to anyone of any type. You are correct. But that doesn't mean that some types aren't more prone to arrogance than others. (Ever talked to an unhealthy INTJ. I rest my case.) Most INFJs I know aren't arrogant. But several male INFJs I know are arrogant in certain areas. They just know they are right about certain things and aren't afraid of telling you about the correctness of their opinion... and they do this to a weird, unhealthy, indicative-to-me-that-they're-afraid-of-being-weak kind of extreme way. In other words, because they feel weak or are afraid of being perceived as weak, they are overcompensating. Or at least that's my read on it.
    Yes, that's where I was trying to get at with my "lack of compassion" statement. Maybe I should have edited my previous post to say "lack of compassion in unhealthy INFJs". A lot of INFJs try to be strong, and they think that by bypassing their Fe they will be able to achieve that. I used to do that a lot and it only made me pessimistic and cynical. Only when I learned to rely more on my Fe and stop perceiving it as a weakness that I became more balanced (and a lot happier)

  9. #19
    Senior Member MrRandom's Avatar
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    Mr. Random, I have considered what you said and re-read my OP. I am forced to disagree with your conclusions.
    Okay, if you say so. I'm sorry for suggesting otherwise.

  10. #20
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    female infjs often seem less socially oblivious and more tactful than males.

    sx infj males are somewhat brooding.

    Ni-Ti is real, especially bad for e5s. lack of Fe extroversion creates this external pressure pushing down on you. Fe builds up your extroverted skill, so you develop more control, composure, and confidence in your assertion. you figure out how to make it work for you. without it, you're fucked.

    male discourse is more damaging to ifj males than ifp males. there's a sense of grounded, inner strength in Fi males that ifj aux Fe males don't have. efj males are more confident in their assertions, they have all their interaction styles and demographics worked out, so they feel secure in their ability to meet the right tone at the right moment and perform accordingly. ifj males don't really have that. plus they have more of an inward grounding than efj males, and especially in Ni-Ti mode, the world can look pretty fucking ugly. the way males relate to each other, especially in S groups, still mostly disgusts me. i don't have the callous insulation that ifp males can develop, protecting their own core of Fi. i am either open and extroverted (which means flexible, really LISTENING to everything around me and imagining what is being said, what people really mean, what preconceptions they really have, etc (which can be hugely disappointing, disillusioning, dehumanizing, and depressing for infj ideals--bc you naturally see so many negative perspectives and you can't keep them all out, they get to be overhwelming), and not judge them. constantly revising your ideals to fit what is around you, while wanting the world to be better than it is (and spending so much time imagining what that could be).

    (ifp males feel a threat of alienation in a different way than infjs, but it's rarely as counterposed to male discourse. they are more focused on the possibiltiies for Fi independence and threats from them, whereas we are focused, emotionally, on what is around us, the mood and tenor and ethical value of it for the group)

    infj males have a difficult path (to create a healthy system for themselves), but the ones who find their way can become great leaders. what are seen as weaknesses can become strengths. i think infj males also put more pressure on themselves to go out into the world and make something of themselves, the kind of masculine yang ambitious vs yin, a kind of assertion breadwinner mentality, which causes conflict when it doesn't match their skills and what makes them happy, feel fulfilled, meaningfully engaged, etc. we as a society probably need more infj stay-at-home dads.

    esoteric wench, are you a 7w8 or an 8w7? you remind me of a friend of mine. she's an sx/so--you both have the same kind of pushiness (and don't take that as an insult because it's not). we always joke about which one of us is going to MAKE the other one listen to us. no me, me, me! (bc i'm the same way at heart)

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