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  1. #41
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    I commented before on this thread, but more recently I've wondered if I do sometimes come across as cold. Or having not much in the way of feelings. Not because I've been told that, but because people have a tendency to treat me as though my feelings won't be hurt no matter what. The curse of looking calm on the outside and being very sensitive on the inside.

    I can tell you this. I'm not cold at all, though I can be very logical about some things. I do struggle with a split between my emotions and my logic - I wish I could get the negative emotions more under control with the logic. But...there is no better way to genuinely get me acting "cold" than to treat me as though I'm cold and without feelings. If you do that, or at least if you do it enough, I will eventually write you off in an extremely cold way.

    I think the above is fairly normal for INFJs, though perhaps not healthy. But coldly writing someone off can be something you eventually have to do for emotional self-preservation.
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  2. #42
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    ""Hm, should be easier to be an INFJ female than an INFJ male."'

    I think female. Its more socially acceptable to show feelings in females. When males do they may be labeled as "'gay"'.
    But hetero men can be just as emotional.

  3. #43
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    Is... IT? I dunno! Maybe IT is. Maybe IT isn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kafkacat View Post
    ""Hm, should be easier to be an INFJ female than an INFJ male."'

    I think female. Its more socially acceptable to show feelings in females. When males do they may be labeled as "'gay"'.
    But hetero men can be just as emotional.
    But the problem was that we come off as cold...I feel that might actually be worse for women... or maybe to put it this way maybe male INFJs have a harder time coping with having the strong feeling nature and when the male stereotype is men being less emotional...so maybe it's a male identity thing in that respects. Not that it would be visible to the outside world generally because of the reservedness, but in close relationships I can see it being an issue, whereas for women it's the opposite problem: Our reservedness comes accross as cold and uncaring and even "bithcy" because we're expected to be outright warm from the offset, but in personal close relationships it's less of a thing because women are supposed to be emotional. I would suspect that we get the negative feedback from different directions. I have gotten cold and proud and all sorts when inside I've just been shy to reveal myself for the fear of getting hurt. Also some aggression after I have not responded "enough" to advances from some less subtle types of brutes. I have on more than one occasion been called a lesbian or frigid by these prince charmings...so it can actually be DANGEROUS sometimes for a woman to not project enough of the "warm welcoming" vibe.

  5. #45
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reverie View Post
    But the problem was that we come off as cold...I feel that might actually be worse for women... or maybe to put it this way maybe male INFJs have a harder time coping with having the strong feeling nature and when the male stereotype is men being less emotional...so maybe it's a male identity thing in that respects. Not that it would be visible to the outside world generally because of the reservedness, but in close relationships I can see it being an issue, whereas for women it's the opposite problem: Our reservedness comes accross as cold and uncaring and even "bithcy" because we're expected to be outright warm from the offset, but in personal close relationships it's less of a thing because women are supposed to be emotional. I would suspect that we get the negative feedback from different directions. I have gotten cold and proud and all sorts when inside I've just been shy to reveal myself for the fear of getting hurt. Also some aggression after I have not responded "enough" to advances from some less subtle types of brutes. I have on more than one occasion been called a lesbian or frigid by these prince charmings...so it can actually be DANGEROUS sometimes for a woman to not project enough of the "warm welcoming" vibe.
    Hey, welcome to the forum!

    I've only known one male INFJ in real life, I think. I think he was more sensitive than his exterior showed - not that he came across as cold, but just quite calm and together. He certainly didn't come across as emo or effeminate, but certainly not a macho man either.

    From what I've read here, and from my own experience and other female INFJs, I think the tendency is that INFJ men tend to come across a bit too emo for a man (rather than having the "too cold" problem), and INFJ women come across a bit too reserved for women. Personally, I've had all kinds of different feedback; some people say I come across as very warm and open, and while I don't think anyone's come right out and told me I was cold, I've certainly had people treat me as though they think I have no feelings, which I think is a consequence of some people being emotionally blind and assuming that because you look calm and collected you're unfeeling. The latter is extremely hurtful because like most INFJs I am very concerned and caring and very sensitive - almost hyper-sensitive.

    In terms of how men treat me, this is going to sound weird, but in a lot of cases it's almost like they automatically treat me with a little too much respect. Like, they find me interesting and even attractive but there's something too intimidating for them to want to pursue me, in most cases. In the case of both genders, it seems like many people tend to assume that I'm going to disapprove of them or their choices. I know INFJs can come over a bit judgmental and maybe that is a bit of a problem for me. I'm really quite accepting and non-judgmental most of the time though. It's a strange combination. ONe of the other members on this site, I think it was Skylights, who's an ENFP, put it very well - she said that INFJs are an odd mix of the "formal and the personal" in their dealings with others. I actually thought that was a very good way to put it.

    I genuinely think a lot of people just don't know how to take us. They see someone calm and reticent (though I, and many INFJs, can be quite silly and fun-loving if we're in an environment where we feel comfortable), and perhaps externally we don't seem very emotional, but they can perhaps sense other stuff brewing below the surface. I don't know, I really think we're an odd mix and a lot of people find it intriguing but perhaps they prefer people (especially for romance) who are more straightforward.
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    I like that description too: Odd mix of formal and personal.
    Seems spot on.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    Hey, welcome to the forum!

    I've only known one male INFJ in real life, I think. I think he was more sensitive than his exterior showed - not that he came across as cold, but just quite calm and together. He certainly didn't come across as emo or effeminate, but certainly not a macho man either.
    I know a male INFJ pretty well, and I'd say at least in a work environment when you're initially interacting with him/observing him, he comes across as kind of unapproachable and crusty, with a hard shell of cynicism/edge. But yes, calm too. Not demonstrative in feeling or emo.

    BUT, I got to know him, and he was delightfully open about everything, and about his life, and the feeling just gushed out. I became close to him at work over a year or so, and prior to my leaving, I had to actually tell my ISFJ coworker friend that this INFJ guy is someone she shouldn't be afraid of, and she eventually became very good friends with this guy and realized he wasn't just this cynical brusque guy. (Because she kinda was intimidated and thought he was just this scary guy (lol), just as she was kinda afraid of/ misread NT's, so I had to tell her the same thing about some of the NT's we work with)

    Anyway. Now we're friends outside of work too, and in a social setting, he's utterly charming and friendly and compassionate and pretty warm/sensitive. He just has non-friend fronts that he puts up. As I expect most F men do - they have a harder exterior that they project, or that is suitable/needed for whatever environment they're in. And, female F's do the same, depending on the environment.
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  8. #48
    Member nomoreshallwepart's Avatar
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    I think that is fair, I think I can appear 'blunt' to many people, what they are seeing is the defence against having one's feelings hurt, INFJs aren't really cold but the warmth has to be drawn out from us.

  9. #49
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nomoreshallwepart View Post
    I think that is fair, I think I can appear 'blunt' to many people, what they are seeing is the defence against having one's feelings hurt, INFJs aren't really cold but the warmth has to be drawn out from us.
    I honestly think that "reserve" is the most accurate way to describe it. Seriously, when Skylights (I think) said that INFJs are both "formal and personal" it was a bit of a penny-drop moment for me. I can kind of understand why many people wouldn't quite know how to take that or might even find it a bit unnerving.

    I do find it harder to forgive when people treat me as though I'm cold or unfeeling. I don't like to think that if I behaved like a neurotic bitch, I would get more credit for having feelings, but sometimes I think that's the way it is. It's just, if you took the time to look the tiniest bit below the surface, not even that far below the surface, you would know that I am anything but cold, uncaring, unfeeling or apathetic. In fact, most people can figure that out without even looking below the surface, particularly. But one thing I've learned is that most people will see whatever is most expedient/practical for them to see (for them and their own needs.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    I honestly think that "reserve" is the most accurate way to describe it. Seriously, when Skylights (I think) said that INFJs are both "formal and personal" it was a bit of a penny-drop moment for me. I can kind of understand why many people wouldn't quite know how to take that or might even find it a bit unnerving.

    I do find it harder to forgive when people treat me as though I'm cold or unfeeling. I don't like to think that if I behaved like a neurotic bitch, I would get more credit for having feelings, but sometimes I think that's the way it is. It's just, if you took the time to look the tiniest bit below the surface, not even that far below the surface, you would know that I am anything but cold, uncaring, unfeeling or apathetic. In fact, most people can figure that out without even looking below the surface, particularly. But one thing I've learned is that most people will see whatever is most expedient/practical for them to see (for them and their own needs.)
    I think we're impersonal because we can see the underlying issues at play and can take them impersonally in a way but at the same time we are feelers, so you know... It's like a tightrope. Do I not take it personally because of these things at play, or do I take it personally to really feel all the feelings and be in the moment. Choose A and you're cold, choose B and you depart from your formal self and become very personal and because of the contrast (because internally you're anything but cold) you end up looking like you are a raving lunatic. The continuity is broken in people's eyes. But in actual fact you are both things at the same time. It's just somewhat difficult to express both simultaneously. It requires more enlightenment than I always have to be honest.

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