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[NF] Just thinking about feelings.

Rebe

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Have any of you NFs just gotten tired of all these feelings? Particularly anger. I forbid myself to feel anger. Even when I am overwhelmed by it, I push it back unless I have an extremely legitimized reason, like she hurt my dog or she offended me and I thought she was a good friend. Partially, I know my anger is toward my past and not at the present situation and at the present person. I suppose this is a personal distinction and it is something I have learned in the past year, not to blame the current people in my life for something someone from the past did. But sometimes I wonder if that makes me unrealistic in my portrayal of feelings. Like, I should express this anger instead of rationalizing it away. The lines are blurry for me; I don't know. My friend recently told me that I confuse people. She is either talking about my lack of emotions or my inconsistency with emotions. When I feel hurt, I feel the need to hide it because it gives the other person tremendous power and me a lost of control. Should I be doing that? I guess, the problem is I don't know how to show proportional anger and proportional hurt. It is either extreme or completely withheld within me. There is no middle ground. It is either :cool: I don't care; It doesn't matter. or :steam: I hate you. You are Evil.

What do you think?
 

yvonne

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feelings: continuing annoyance/ my core

1. i have feelings and i can't get rid of them
2. i don't want to get rid of them - they are important
3. how do i deal?
4. i go to myself and before i act out to others i try to find other ways to let them out
5. if needed i go to others, but more calmed/ without too many expectations
6. i realize they pass and take notice how...
7. i use my feelings to assist me in making good decisions in life
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
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As someone who is from opposite side of the border and pretty far from it I will say something and I will simply be blunt with you.



What you are doing is possibly the worst option for you and others since this way you come as a chaotic person. In other words I see people as you as a problem which is because I never know with who I am actually dealing with.
I mean you are a FP which are naturally little bit chaotic plus you are hidding things from us. In other word you make sure that we don't notice the paterns about your behaviour. So we are unable to plan avoiding hurtful situations.



I as a person I would much rather that you explode right in to my face once a week than play guessing game with you in the case I am your co-worker or something. One of the reasons why this is the case is bacause I would probably have a better understanding of what is going on since I want to know why are you angry at me. Which is not often the case if I get something in my face "6 months too late".


For some of us emotional conflict is in a way unfamiliar territory. Plus we dislike it since we are forced to have it since if we stay impersonal you will become even more angry at as. What means that I will have to become personal with you in order to make it possible for you steam. However we usually want to know about what was that all about if we are making it personal. Especially since the conflict could have a long term consequences on our relations.




This post probably wouldn't make you feel much better about yourself however I though you could use an insight about strong Ts.
I hope it makes some sense to you.
 

disregard

mrs
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If you suppress anger until you have a "legitimate" (which I assume means "big enough") reason to release it, you will be releasing more anger than is warranted by the circumstance.

Free-flowing communication, even (especially) with the little things (little things add up), is what I have learned is best. Nothing is worse than burying anger. It takes on a life of its own.
 

yvonne

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^ actually, that doesn't make much sense to me...

i am willing to talk about my feelings with people, if i think it is necessary... i don't think "blowing up" at people is necessary, but it can happen.

i think i'm personally getting better at dealing with impersonal critique/ opinions. that is how some people function, so why should i have a problem with their inability/ reluctance to "sugarcoat" what they wish to say?
 

21%

You have a choice!
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I generally try to suppress all negative feelings until I am alone and can sort them out, usually by thinking, crying, writing, those things. With anger, if it's someone I love and I know that they deep down don't want to hurt me, talking with them and explaining why I was hurt helps. If it's someone I don't love and I know they do have the intention to hurt me, then it's an eternal good bye for them.
 

Rebe

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I used to be pretty-in-your-face about things when I was younger- ESPECIALLY when I saw someone get picked on? I'd jump in and bitchslap the hell out of the other person. Now? Noway. Not. At. All. I did a 180- realizing all that anger got me nowhere.

Yes, I figured that out too. It would just deplete me of energy and calm, but not do anything in the end because anger/yelling isn't constructive and bitchslapping everyone is just not who I want to be known for, haha. I do argue pretty hard for my position if it is very important and esp. if it is with my friends. I like them to know my position.


What you are doing is possibly the worst option for you and others since this way you come as a chaotic person. In other words I see people as you as a problem which is because I never know with who I am actually dealing with.
I mean you are a FP which are naturally little bit chaotic plus you are hiding things from us. In other word you make sure that we don't notice the patterns about your behavior. So we are unable to plan avoiding hurtful situations.

Hmm...this above is very interesting. I do agree with that - yes I do - I suppose that would be extremely confusing for whoever is on the other end for me to hide very prominent emotions because I don't want to lose control - but I do, at some point anyway. I will have to talk to my isfj friend about this. Thanks for the insight.

I as a person I would much rather that you explode right in to my face once a week than play guessing game with you in the case I am your co-worker or something. One of the reasons why this is the case is because I would probably have a better understanding of what is going on since I want to know why are you angry at me. Which is not often the case if I get something in my face "6 months too late".

I don't mean I have residual anger. It would be me getting extremely angry within the moment of what you said/did...and then, two days later, I will let you know I am fine and I will therefore convince myself I am fine and move along at top speed.

What means that I will have to become personal with you in order to make it possible for you steam. However we usually want to know about what was that all about if we are making it personal. Especially since the conflict could have a long term consequences on our relations.

I see where I went wrong with a intj - haha - :doh:

This post probably wouldn't make you feel much better about yourself however I though you could use an insight about strong Ts.
I hope it makes some sense to you.

I wasn't feeling bad about myself, it was a curiosity question. And I find your post insightful and I will see how I can improve at this when I run it through my Fe-friend. :yes:
 

Thessaly

I drink your milkshake.
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I often get sick of my feelings too.

I think being an NFP can be particularly hard because we can go through all sorts of scenarios in our head over and over again without forming a solid conclusion on how we feel and just keep revisiting possibilities.

This is something that cannot be changed. It is simply how we function. Our feelings are never permanent and always taking new shape.

What's the solution then?

Begin with the premise that feelings don't bother you. You can have them, but keep perspective. Don't suppress them, but act intelligently on them. Engage yourself in dispassionate contemplation. Most importantly fill your mind with worthy thinking. Read an interesting book. Learn about nature.

The best way to deal with anger specifically is catch yourself when your self-righteous inner dialogue is taking over and fueling the fire, and challenge those thoughts. Think of how you may be wrong and give serious evaluation to those challenges. The earlier the better too. Anger can reach a point where your amygdala hijacks any rationality and there is no hope to deal with it intelligently until you seriously calm down.

Also, it is particularly hard for one to stay angry when in a good mood. Go have some fun and remove yourself from whatever is upsetting you for a period of time.
 

sculpting

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Typically I am very reserved with emotions. I get annoyed more than angry. Very rarely do I ever get hurt.

If I feel anger I understand it is destructive and will hurt others. If I will any strong emotion towards another I stop and recognize it. I detach and rationally evaluate it. I often will assume that wrongdoing is mine, forgive them and very explicitly quench the anger through forgiveness. I MUST let it go. If I dont let it go through forgivness and rationalization, then it engages a more primitive side of myself into action to address the root cause-the other person-which is often counter productive.

I very rarely ever engage in bitchslaps (ah, the irony). I grew up watching my mom and sister do bitchslap behavior endlessly and it is so energetically draining that I think I learned the forgive paradigm above as an alternative.

I will get annoyed with others and bitch a bit, but typically when angry:

1) I step back and establish distance if I feel a loss of control
2) I try and rationalize the situation
3) I will assume full acountability for the problem
4) I will assume others acted not to be cruel but out of their own internal conflicts, thus forgive them-ie I always assume best intent on the part of others.
5)I quench the anger and dismiss it through total forgiveness.

Sometimes this results in distance from others for awhile but often the complete forgiveness makes it okay to be around them again very soon or even within seconds even.

Every so often I will speak out. It is like I internally process everything inside of me-and the rules all just say "speak up. address this issue. do not let this proceed unaddressed. If you do so, then more harm will come from this event" Typically this is if I see others being hurt, or I recognize that not addressing this issue long term, will lead to suffering of multiple people.

I think this may be the typical enfp martyr behavior though.
 

Rebe

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1) I step back and establish distance if I feel a loss of control
2) I try and rationalize the situation
3) I will assume full acountability for the problem
4) I will assume others acted not to be cruel but out of their own internal conflicts, thus forgive them-ie I always assume best intent on the part of others.
5)I quench the anger and dismiss it through total forgiveness.

That's what I mean, that's exactly what I do. Well, I don't forgive as much as I just let it go. But, is that healthy? To always rationalize feelings away? It could be because I am around Fe-types a lot and they just pour out emotions and I am just so reserved. Are they doing it right or am I doing it right or are the strong T types doing it right? :shock:
 

sculpting

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That's what I mean, that's exactly what I do. Well, I don't forgive as much as I just let it go. But, is that healthy? To always rationalize feelings away? It could be because I am around Fe-types a lot and they just pour out emotions and I am just so reserved. Are they doing it right or am I doing it right or are the strong T types doing it right? :shock:

You know Rebe, I am very mixed on this one.

If it is rationalization followed by REAL forgiveness-then I think it may okay if it is a one time thing, or some small slight that is unimportant.

If it isnt forgiveness, but actually just bottling it up-well that sounds not good. I dont think enfps are as good at being able to bottle up bad emo as maybe infps can. I think we emo-plode if we try and bottle up, so are kinda stuck either saying something or forgiving.

For myself rationalization works like a charm for anger-for hurt-oh, not such much. For growth, I need to understand how to better process emotional pain rather than just repress it. It is a lesson I am working through and I much enjoy listening to the INFPs here as they are very good understanding this.

How do your Fe users emo-vent? It isnt something I have seen but maybe I just dont have enough Fe types to watch?
 

Rebe

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Fe-users (this drives me crazy and scares me, but I do love them)(or at least the ones I know) believe that every emotion they have are absolutely legitimate and Right and even sometimes logical/reasonable.

Someone does something, Fe-user is upset. Fe-user vents about her feelings.
Me: But, you shouldn't feel that way, they didn't mean it that way, there is no reason to feel that way, etc.
Fe-user: BUT I DO. THAT IS HOW I FEEL.
Me: Wha......uhm...

Whereas.
Someone does something. I feel quite awful because I don't know how to process it accurately, in terms of my current feelings, of my future feelings, whether I should base on strictly facts but uhm, what are facts?...etc.

Me toward whoever hurt my feelings: YOU ARE AN AWFUL PERSON.

Two days later, after I have thought about this and did my introspection and logic thing: So, I didn't mean what I said. I got over it. I am not upset anymore. (translation: I don't feel good about exposing myself like that and I may still be a little upset, not because you did something wrong, but my feelings are hurt and that is okay, but I cannot let you know this, so I must take back what I previously expressed in order to re-gain control and lock myself back behind my wall of protection. See ya.)

Whereas a Fe-user would still find their feelings legitimate and see them as 'facts of life' and don't feel the need to rationalize it away. "It is okay for me to feel this way. Maybe there is no 'logical' reason for me to feel hurt, but I did feel it, so I have a right to be hurt."

Of course, I am over-simplifying and over-generalizing as I am basing it on two Fe-friends of mine, but bare with me. This is very interesting to me and I'd like to know how to handle future situations better. Maybe I am over-thinking, maybe my reaction is just the middle way between Fe and T users and that is totally fine.

Oh! You know, duh, this is prob. just the difference between Fi and Fe. When Fi-s are hurt and angry, they get all 'universal principles' and 'idealistic' whereas Fe are more grounded in their emotional expressions so it never goes as far as 'your entire character is awful because of this one thing you did' but more like 'that specific situation hurt me' so their emotions are naturally proportional.
 

Rainne

One day and the next
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Boredom/apathy is one of the worst feelings.
 

gromit

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I try to consider the feeling and see what is making me feel that way. Sometimes if it is intense/overwhelming I need to talk to somebody else who can help me figure it out.

There is a good chance I am reacting strongly because somebody is being unreasonable and it has nothing to do with me. But I also look for what I call "disproportionate emotional reaction" (in myself and in others) because that is usually a sign that there's something else going on beside the apparent point of conflict. Obviously it's more difficult with other people, but with myself, once I figure out what is causing it then I can try to work on that. Like maybe insecurities are causing me to get defensive, and NOT the thing that the other person said that touched upon that insecurity. Or maybe I'm just touchy because of family circumstances, or because I haven't eaten or gotten enough sleep, or something like that.


It is a little bit cliche maybe, but I think it's actually a really good way to look at this sort of thing.
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

That is what I try to learn to discern.
 

21%

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Fe-users (this drives me crazy and scares me, but I do love them)(or at least the ones I know) believe that every emotion they have are absolutely legitimate and Right and even sometimes logical/reasonable.

Someone does something, Fe-user is upset. Fe-user vents about her feelings.
Me: But, you shouldn't feel that way, they didn't mean it that way, there is no reason to feel that way, etc.
Fe-user: BUT I DO. THAT IS HOW I FEEL.
Me: Wha......uhm...

Whereas.
Someone does something. I feel quite awful because I don't know how to process it accurately, in terms of my current feelings, of my future feelings, whether I should base on strictly facts but uhm, what are facts?...etc.

Me toward whoever hurt my feelings: YOU ARE AN AWFUL PERSON.

Two days later, after I have thought about this and did my introspection and logic thing: So, I didn't mean what I said. I got over it. I am not upset anymore. (translation: I don't feel good about exposing myself like that and I may still be a little upset, not because you did something wrong, but my feelings are hurt and that is okay, but I cannot let you know this, so I must take back what I previously expressed in order to re-gain control and lock myself back behind my wall of protection. See ya.)

Whereas a Fe-user would still find their feelings legitimate and see them as 'facts of life' and don't feel the need to rationalize it away. "It is okay for me to feel this way. Maybe there is no 'logical' reason for me to feel hurt, but I did feel it, so I have a right to be hurt."

Of course, I am over-simplifying and over-generalizing as I am basing it on two Fe-friends of mine, but bare with me. This is very interesting to me and I'd like to know how to handle future situations better. Maybe I am over-thinking, maybe my reaction is just the middle way between Fe and T users and that is totally fine.

Oh! You know, duh, this is prob. just the difference between Fi and Fe. When Fi-s are hurt and angry, they get all 'universal principles' and 'idealistic' whereas Fe are more grounded in their emotional expressions so it never goes as far as 'your entire character is awful because of this one thing you did' but more like 'that specific situation hurt me' so their emotions are naturally proportional.

Wow, this is certainly interesting. For me, "I know you didn't mean it but I felt hurt anyway (because of how you said it, how I was already feeling, external circumstances, a misunderstanding, etc.)" seems perfectly acceptable, but "You are an awful person" seems a really cruel thing to say and I would be extremely hurt if someone said that to me. (My thought process would be -- I did something wrong and unintentionally hurt your feelings and suddenly you are rejecting me as a person. It makes me feel like that one thing I did is more important than our whole friendship. Even if you take back what you say later, it still hurts, because at that moment when you said it, you really meant it that you thought I was a horrible person.)

I don't know, but I don't think 'locking yourself' behind your walls is really healthy. If you really care for them, and they for you, they have the right to know what they did that made you feel bad. Sometimes people have no idea that they are treading on sensitive grounds (especially with Fi), so I think it's better to let them know when you're feeling uncomfortable. Human interactions are tricky, and I think people normally try not to make other people feel bad intentionally (unless they are really horrible people), so a little guide on what to do or what not to do should be helpful and I believe people will try NOT to hurt your feelings in a similar manner in the future once they know how it hurt you.

(I know the confrontation bit when you actually talk to them about why you got hurt might be difficult, but I think it pays off in the long run) :)
 

yvonne

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^ completely agree with you 21%.

it is not healthy to do character assassination based on you being hurt in a situation. that sort of black and white thinking will cause you and people around you a lot of trouble. i think it's wise not to read between the lines too much and first go to yourself.

also, it is not healthy taking all the blame, nor is it wise to always assume that people have good intentions...

situations where you get hurt are usually misunderstandings (or just a clash of feelings, for whatever reason), or are caused by differences in priorities.

misunderstandings/ bad vibes can be talked through, forgiven and forgotten, but if i notice a pattern of negativity, i will get into the issue deeper and probably come to the conclusion that the conflicts are caused by bigger differences in priorities.

and even if using Thinking is unfamiliar to you in conflict situations, it is important...
 
G

garbage

Guest
Me? I completely bury or become absolutely determined to work through negative feelings, often believing that I shouldn't be having them, that I should be strong enough to deal with them, or that I should be over whatever it is that caused them.

I often have trouble trusting others with my negative feelings, as though they'd just be a burden on other people and that I should deal with them myself. As the person who's seen as "the strong one", I feel like I've gotten the message that others drop the ball when they have to be strong for me.


For me, "I know you didn't mean it but I felt hurt anyway (because of how you said it, how I was already feeling, external circumstances, a misunderstanding, etc.)" seems perfectly acceptable, but "You are an awful person" seems a really cruel thing to say and I would be extremely hurt if someone said that to me.

If I do something that hurts someone, I can attempt to explain my perspective. And I can just choose not to do it again. (Or I can choose not to care about how they feel and do it again anyway.) I'm really not responsible for another's feelings, but I can choose to love and support them while still looking out for #1.

If someone tells me that I'm an awful person, then I'm pretty much screwed in their eyes. At that point, the message is that they do believe that their feelings are my fault. And it'd take a lot for me to even be able to talk to them again.
 

Lauren

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^ completely agree with you 21%.

it is not healthy to do character assassination based on you being hurt in a situation. that sort of black and white thinking will cause you and people around you a lot of trouble. i think it's wise not to read between the lines too much and first go to yourself.

also, it is not healthy taking all the blame, nor is it wise to always assume that people have good intentions...

situations where you get hurt are usually misunderstandings (or just a clash of feelings, for whatever reason), or are caused by differences in priorities.

misunderstandings/ bad vibes can be talked through, forgiven and forgotten, but if i notice a pattern of negativity, i will get into the issue deeper and probably come to the conclusion that the conflicts are caused by bigger differences in priorities.

and even if using Thinking is unfamiliar to you in conflict situations, it is important...

Agree that invoking T in conflict situations is helpful. Or in situations where you get lost in the Ne Si loop that Udog posted about some time ago.

Though it's not healthy to take all the blame, I've found that telling someone you didn't mean to hurt their feelings but if you did, you're sorry, helps to open up communication. Looking for blame in and of itself isn't helpful. It usually doesn't matter whose fault it is; what's important is to talk about what's causing the conflict (how each of you feels).

I forgive and forget conflicts that may arise between friends. Because I have just a few close friends, conflicts (though few) are easier to work out because once someone is my friend, I'm like the North Star. Constant, reliable, always there for them. I'll go to great lengths to resolve an issue. I can't become cold and distant with a true friend, to hurt them that much.

Getting back to using T. It helps to look at something logically or dispassionately when you use Fi. It's very difficult for me to extricate myself from my feelings. Living there (with intense feelings) is not easy at times and it can skew a situation. I've learned that as much as I trust my feelings and intuition, they can be faulty.
 

yvonne

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^ an excellent post Lauren, and i identify with every word :yes:

i've also found that with T types you can be quite blunt. if you manage to explain your emotions with T logic, you will almost always get a positive response.
 

sculpting

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Someone does something. I feel quite awful because I don't know how to process it accurately, in terms of my current feelings, of my future feelings, whether I should base on strictly facts but uhm, what are facts?...etc.

Me toward whoever hurt my feelings: YOU ARE AN AWFUL PERSON.

Two days later, after I have thought about this and did my introspection and logic thing: So, I didn't mean what I said. I got over it. I am not upset anymore. (translation: I don't feel good about exposing myself like that and I may still be a little upset, not because you did something wrong, but my feelings are hurt and that is okay, but I cannot let you know this, so I must take back what I previously expressed in order to re-gain control and lock myself back behind my wall of protection. See ya.)

Whereas a Fe-user would still find their feelings legitimate and see them as 'facts of life' and don't feel the need to rationalize it away. "It is okay for me to feel this way. Maybe there is no 'logical' reason for me to feel hurt, but I did feel it, so I have a right to be hurt."

Of course, I am over-simplifying and over-generalizing as I am basing it on two Fe-friends of mine, but bare with me. This is very interesting to me and I'd like to know how to handle future situations better. Maybe I am over-thinking, maybe my reaction is just the middle way between Fe and T users and that is totally fine.

Oh! You know, duh, this is prob. just the difference between Fi and Fe. When Fi-s are hurt and angry, they get all 'universal principles' and 'idealistic' whereas Fe are more grounded in their emotional expressions so it never goes as far as 'your entire character is awful because of this one thing you did' but more like 'that specific situation hurt me' so their emotions are naturally proportional.

I kinda get what you are saying about not understanding how to process-but instead typically, I seem to have a mental block against permenant labels like "You are...." unless you have pushed me to the point of hatred. Normally I will say "You are doing this..." or "you are acting like..." or maybe even "why are you acting like an ass?"

(Ah, damn, I have to take that back-if I am way emo, and way pushed into a corner I will lash out to get you out of my space. The words can be very mean then, but this happens very rarely. Never back an ENFP into a corner.)

What do INFPs expect to be the results of emotional expression? What do you expect the other person to do once you have expressed your emotions? Rebe it sounds like you are just seeking processing space... but others? Is it simply a statement of values, so that mutual respect can be established?

Also-if you cannot trust others, how do you determine who to trust emotionally? I typically block everyone honestly and let nobody close via engaging with Te, not Fi. But if I did try and engage more openly with Fi, can you describe how you do so in a graduated fashion-I guess a slower unveiling? Are there degrees of trust-some people are trusted more than others perhaps? Both may be Fi connections but on different levels?

Also-blame? To me it seems like I have to get it out of the way, so that all negativity goes away. The easiest way is just to accept it, and relieve the other person of that blame, then dismiss it. Then we can talk or just move on, as everything is forgiven. If you dont accept blame, how do you work through the issue-do you go item by item in discussion, not to blame, but to understand? I really have no idea.
 
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