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  1. #11
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Errm well not to argue but one of my best mates is an ENFJ, so is my sister and so is Lori's mother. I also reckon that one of the women I work with is an ENFJ too.

    Common as muck... obviously.

    Summer is finally over in England, eh?
    A good joke.

  2. #12
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Littlelostnf View Post
    Ok so the mystery of the missing ENFJ's has been solved in one way or another. Question #2: How many ENFJ's here have found themselves walking away from an encounter (particularly an emotional one) feeling as if there was no way you could have been clearer about how you felt and yet the other person seems to be deliberately taking what you've said and making it only your issue instead of accepting some part in the situation?....

    Wait was the above clear?

    Is this more about ENFJ perception of conflict or could it be others taking advantage of an ENFJ's clear want and need of relative peace in terms of interpersonal relationships? (in other words definately NOT drama queens)

    forgive me if i'm not as lucid with my answers today (feeling very bad), but i can say that when i make an effort to interface with someone, even drastically alter my communication or step well out of my comfort zone, and they seem hellbent on being an island, yes, it makes me want to beat my head against a wall. i don't get misunderstood much, but when it does happen, it's always an unpleasant surprise to me, like a fish suddenly finding itself out of water. i also think we may, as NFJs, feel the misunderstanding more acutely than other types might. my ENFP sister can get mad, walk away, perhaps stay mad if the fight was bad, but then be able to dismiss many things that just lodge in me like arrows. this is why, when i'm under stress or dealing with a pig-headed person, i go to an NT to make sure i wasn't remiss in my delivery.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
    Neutral Good
    EII-Fi subtype, Ethical/Empath, Delta/Beta
    RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
    Inquistive/Limbic
    AIS Holland code
    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  3. #13
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Really long post ahead...

    Quote Originally Posted by Littlelostnf View Post
    My first question is...How many of you feel that ESFJ's are often mistaken for us? I don't know a 1/4 as many ENFJ's as so many people on this forum say they do IRL. I actually have one woman I work with who tested ENFJ and besides her all my other NF friends IRL are ENFP (8), INFP (4) and INFJ (2). I actually know more INFJ's than I do ENFJ's
    I'm beginning to suspect three possible ENFJs at my job. Unfortunately they work in other departments and I don't have enough sustained contact with them to be sure. I hate to try to constantly use my "feelings" as justification for something, but I just don't get the same feelings with ESJFs. With ESFJs we usually tend to agree about things but execution or how to approach the situation causes us to diverge very strongly. And then I'm left with this feeling that I like the person very much but we keep passing each other by somehow. There are quite a few ESFJs at my job and we get along great (most of them are under 30 and they'd given any ESFP a run for their money), but there's a disconnect somewhere unless we keep the conversation very structured on a given topic. I don't have this problem with older ESFJs so much (well it's not even a problem really just people differences). I guess that's due to their maturity. And given the fact that both types tend to be quite forthcoming with our feelings we have absolutely no problem telling the other what we think which leads to interesting conversations.

    One thing that annoys me, and this is generally about MBTI, is people so heavily relying on "The Tests" to type people. I realize that I probably take MBTI and Jung's theories more seriously than most forum members, but if you can't use your brain and try to figure out what type someone is based on your knowledge of MBTI, then why don't you chill with typing people until you have some understanding. A lot of these type misunderstandings arise from a person being incorrectly typed, usually because the typer is using a superficial knowledge of type theory. The most easily typed people are the ones that are textbook examples and I find that most people aren't that clear cut. I think some people see Fe and look for a few superficial signs to indicate Si or Ni and that's it, usually Si if they don't like them and Ni if they do. Aside from being able to identify whether the person's an introvert or extrovert and narrowing down from there, it takes me a while to truly type someone to the point I feel is more than superficial. Even after all that I can still get thrown. One of my INTJ coworkers (I knew she was NT but couldn't figure out which one) I thought was ENTP. I asked her if she knew about MBTI and she told me she was INTJ. She knew enough about it to be confident in the INTJ reading. *shrug*

    As for being confused for an ESFJ, no one I know is into MBTI so they don't confuse me for anything other than who I am. I acknowledge that I may be an ESFJ who doesn't know the difference between Si and Ni. Lookin4 gave a good description in this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Littlelostnf View Post
    How many ENFJ's here have found themselves walking away from an encounter (particularly an emotional one) feeling as if there was no way you could have been clearer about how you felt and yet the other person seems to be deliberately taking what you've said and making it only your issue instead of accepting some part in the situation?....

    Wait was the above clear?

    Is this more about ENFJ perception of conflict or could it be others taking advantage of an ENFJ's clear want and need of relative peace in terms of interpersonal relationships? (in other words definately NOT drama queens)
    Drama queens? LOL. I'm not going to say I don't like a little innocent entertainment when things get boring. That's just me though I have no problem observing conflict when I'm not involved in any way. I don't feel a need to go make things better if it has nothing to do with me. My tolerance of conflict depends on the type of relationship. I have low tolerance professionally and romantically, high tolerance with my family and friends. I don't like my character being besmirched and that tends to be something that is more likely to happen professionally and romantically.

    One of the things that ENFJs have to work on is our tolerance of conflict and not trying to leap in and fix it or get passive about it. I was in two sustained high stress situations for nearly two years, where I couldn't sleep and I was getting migraines all the time. I was filled with so much dread at having to deal with the people that I felt was the source of the problem and every attempt to fix it so that I could feel some peace was resisted. After awhile there were things I just couldn't be bothered with because it was such an adverse affect on me and I began to not care. I don't know if that was the healthy way to deal with it, but I didn't know how else to do except to turn completely off and become apathetic to the situation.

    I've gotten burned trying to make things better for people. I don't want to come across as having The Answer to All Your Problems so I say little. This is be extreme, but when someone is clearly making a bad decision I just sit there and do my best INFP impression by telling them to do what they feel is right. It's difficult because the words are burning a hole in my mouth and I kinda think I do know what's best , but unless the person asks for it what can you do.

    Pinkpiranha wrote something about always attracting broken people in another thread that I really identified with. At the ripe age of 22 when I tried to be everyone's psychotherapist I looked around me and noticed the people I attracted. I noticed that I was basically their caretaker and I resist being that. I don't want to be anyone's rock, it really is too much pressure. Or rather, it's I don't want to have someone develop an unhealthy dependence on me. I felt like I was being cast in a role I really didn't want to be in. Some people felt so little love and stability when they were growing up they they latch onto the first people that show them some kindness and care about their well-being. Sometimes, their grip is too tight, it becomes suffocating and constrictive and I began to feel like if I wanted out of the relationship, it wouldn't be easy the closer we became. No they're not doing anything wrong per se, but you feel them attaching themselves to you and it's not symbiotic. I felt that with these people in particular, and I had to back away from them. I'm still trying to distance myself from one of them.

    =================================================
    I have a couple of questions myself. I've got plenty more, but I'll start with these.

    What aspects of Fe resound with you the most? Those that know about MBTI tend to emphasize the more traditional aspects of Fe, i.e., not having any feelings that can't be expressed in a 4x5 greeting card sealed in a pastel colored envelope.

    I break Fe down into these basic components:
    - creating harmony through shared values; reducing group/interpersonal conflict
    - assessing and fulfilling needs (emotional, physical, spiritual); active concern
    - expressing feelings

    How do you distinguish/express your Fe feelings and your Fi feelings? Do you try to separate your private values from public values? Is there a difference? If so, do you integrate them?

    Jung describes Fe as being extensive (broader in scope/comprehensive) rather than intensive (Fi- highly concentrated/intense). I think this leads people to believe that Fe is shallow, like nothing is ever felt to the core or the only thing EFJs value is what society says to value and I don't think that's true. I'm not understanding what Fi could value that Fe doesn't. Compassion, empathy/sympathy, truth, kindness, mercy, justice, patience, etc. these ideas don't inhabit different spheres in my mind.

    Thanks!
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  4. #14
    Senior Member Littlelostnf's Avatar
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    What aspects of Fe resound with you the most? Those that know about MBTI tend to emphasize the more traditional aspects of Fe, i.e., not having any feelings that can't be expressed in a 4x5 greeting card sealed in a pastel colored envelope.

    I break Fe down into these basic components:
    - creating harmony through shared values; reducing group/interpersonal conflict
    - assessing and fulfilling needs (emotional, physical, spiritual); active concern
    - expressing feelings

    How do you distinguish/express your Fe feelings and your Fi feelings? Do you try to separate your private values from public values? Is there a difference? If so, do you integrate them?

    Jung describes Fe as being extensive (broader in scope/comprehensive) rather than intensive (Fi- highly concentrated/intense). I think this leads people to believe that Fe is shallow, like nothing is ever felt to the core or the only thing EFJs value is what society says to value and I don't think that's true. I'm not understanding what Fi could value that Fe doesn't. Compassion, empathy/sympathy, truth, kindness, mercy, justice, patience, etc. these ideas don't inhabit different spheres in my mind.

    Thanks!
    You know Protean I think that you could just have an Fe/Fi thread in and of itself.

    Briefly (gotta get to work but...) My Fe/Fi is pretty balanced (according to tests I've taken) I think that each feeds the other but I definately lean more heavily on my Fe I tend to think that my Fi could be selfish if I let it get the best of me. I won't go against deeply held beliefs or feeling I have for the good of the general public but I will definately do my best to have a situation work out for the best of ALL involved. I think that valuing what is for the good of the whole is a good thing...but not good if you completely ignore what you value. I think that valuing what you feel is important but can be shortsighted and lead to serious problems if you never stop to consider others. It seems to me that most people look at Fi as a good thing and Fe as somehow blocking you being able to act in an independant way. Fe is scorned and treat as a shallow weak function and if you look at human interaction you'll find that many of our problems stem from Fe's lack of use.
    for my life is slowed up by thought and the need to understand what I am living.

  5. #15
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Default Questions for my MBTI cousins the ENFJs

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Pinkpiranha wrote something about always attracting broken people in another thread that I really identified with. At the ripe age of 22 when I tried to be everyone's psychotherapist I looked around me and noticed the people I attracted. I noticed that I was basically their caretaker and I resist being that. I don't want to be anyone's rock, it really is too much pressure. Or rather, it's I don't want to have someone develop an unhealthy dependence on me. I felt like I was being cast in a role I really didn't want to be in. Some people felt so little love and stability when they were growing up they they latch onto the first people that show them some kindness and care about their well-being. Sometimes, their grip is too tight, it becomes suffocating and constrictive and I began to feel like if I wanted out of the relationship, it wouldn't be easy the closer we became. No they're not doing anything wrong per se, but you feel them attaching themselves to you and it's not symbiotic. I felt that with these people in particular, and I had to back away from them. I'm still trying to distance myself from one of them.
    Not to butt in on the ENFJ party, especially as I think it's true you guys are less represented here than ENFPs -- but I think a lot of ENFPs and even ENTPs identify with this 'latching on magnet' phenomena. Do you think it's an ENXX thing?

    I was wondering, when you are a 'broken people magnet' what kind of 'broken people' do you attract? Do you find they get way too comfortable with you way too fast? I.E. start clowning you or criticizing you or getting angry with you -- basically all the 'aggressive' things they are too scared to do with anyone else (hence the socialization isues)? Do these people look to you for answers or merely acceptance? People get drawn to me the ENFP for safety, acceptance, and kindness mostly and not for answers. How cognizant of people's 'social outcast' status are you when people start to get attached to you and how does the larger social context effect you?

    Man, Protean, maybe we should PM each other lest other people here begin to think I'm a heartless bastard...

    But really, I'm curious how ENFJ's would answer these questions. I'm just trying to see functionally how this 'people latching on' phenomena differs between different types and how different types feel about it.

    Also, I'm looking forward to reading this thread to see what the big difference between an ENFP and ENFJ are? My 'J' has traditionally been very weak but is getting stronger as I get older, get a little world weary (hahah, I'm not even in my 30s), and make a conscious effort to be more judicious.
    Last edited by CzeCze; 11-19-2007 at 08:55 AM. Reason: It's all in the wording

  6. #16
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    I was wondering, when you are a 'broken people magnet' what kind of 'broken people' do you attract
    Drug-addicts. Alcoholics. Abuse victims. Self-destructers. Self-medicaters. Gangsters. Outsiders. People I was raised around, basically. I had friends whoring/drinking/smoking/shooting up when I was in middle school. It was BAD.


    Do you find they get way too comfortable with you way too fast? I.E. start clowning you or criticizing you or getting angry with you -- basically all the 'aggressive' things they are too scared to do with anyone else (hence the socialization isues)? Do these people look to you for answers or merely acceptance?
    Yes, to this. I don't draw sociopaths, as such, just really banged-up miserable drowning people. My INTJ best friend is great for peeling the toxic element off of me (and my sister for that matter). I just go into "mind meld mode" without a thought and then it's on and I can't stop it without slamming around for the OFF switch. My twin calls me "Jim Jones" sometimes only half-joking because I can draw people like a cult leader (no, that's NOT a brag... I find it deeply disturbing, especially since I have such a strong attachment to God and the cosmic, and I would never even ATTEMPT to control people like that. Not that I could. Just saying it's morally offensive to me.).


    People get drawn to me the ENFP for safety, acceptance, and kindness mostly and not for answers.
    My sister's problem exactly. People feel safe with her. I'm the opposite, like a shot in the arm. I tend to get the reckless "drowning" element -- she gets the "I need transcendental purpose" type.


    How cognizant of people's 'social outcast' status are you when people start to get attached to you and how does the larger social context effect you?
    I don't typically notice it until after attachment has started. Hence why I need T-functions around to go "OH NO YOU DON'T..." and collar either me or the attachee.

    I've had at least two stalkers IRL which is terrifying. But I've also met so many people that were worth the effort of restoration and I go from there.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
    Neutral Good
    EII-Fi subtype, Ethical/Empath, Delta/Beta
    RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
    Inquistive/Limbic
    AIS Holland code
    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  7. #17
    Member whatnot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    I don't typically notice it until after attachment has started. Hence why I need T-functions around to go "OH NO YOU DON'T..." and collar either me or the attachee.

    I know what you mean. I love helping people, but can only handle so much. I try to activate my T side and help them pragmatically solve their problems. If they really want to fix their situation, they'll listen. Otherwise they move on. Win-win.

    Granted, that's easier said than done, especially for an F.

  8. #18
    Junior Member Mysticalrevan's Avatar
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    Default Calling all ENFJs!

    Hey everybody,

    I'm new to this forum and I want to talk to all the ENFJs that I can!

    I will still talk to everyone else, but I would prefer that I talk to ENFJs because of there link to INTJ and INTP personalities.

    I am an INTJ and I was wanting to understand better the ENFJ perspective.

  9. #19
    Senior Member The Third Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysticalrevan View Post
    Hey everybody,

    I'm new to this forum and I want to talk to all the ENFJs that I can!

    I will still talk to everyone else, but I would prefer that I talk to ENFJs because of there link to INTJ and INTP personalities.

    I am an INTJ and I was wanting to understand better the ENFJ perspective.
    Feel free to ask any questions!!
    ENFJ 3W4

    If you read this I am sorry to say that you just lost 5 seconds of your life that you wont be getting back.*

    *Actual time may vary.

  10. #20
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Hi, Mystical. I seem to recall your name from INTPc?
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
    Neutral Good
    EII-Fi subtype, Ethical/Empath, Delta/Beta
    RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
    Inquistive/Limbic
    AIS Holland code
    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

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