[MBTI General] Not being so harsh

[Little Linguist]

I used to be wicked when I was younger, but I've (somewhat) mellowed out (a little bit) with time. That being said, I'm 30 and one of the older members on here (age-wise). Last I checked, most people were around 18-24. That makes a big difference.

 

[proteanmix]

Observing your actions, behaviors and how you come across to others I find to be a very easily distorted lens.

I've had people tell me that they're very adept at "being a bitch" when it's necessary, but when they think they're being caustic and harsh it rarely comes across that way--which is sometimes good and sometimes bad. Conversely, some think they're consistently soft as cotton candy and others say blink and you'll miss it--which is sometimes good and sometimes bad.

I recently had a coworker tell me how often they have to play the bad guy with their subordinates and I thought to myself "you wouldn't even bust a grape in a fruit fight." What I said is "I don't think you're as evil as you think you are. " The way she sees herself is not how she is generally seen at all. Another coworker was going on and on about how she has to lay down the law with people, thinking that's assertive and proactive behavior when people really just see her as inconsistent, petulant and temperamental. Neither one of them are accurately gauging themselves. I think these two find it difficult to be directive towards others so they think they transmogrify into these horrific beasts when they have to give out instructions, when they're not really.

Now I have another coworker who told me they've had to work not isolate people around them because they simply didn't know how to speak to people. This person still lapses into that mode a few times a week, but they balance it with other things. They have more accurate self-perception and I tend to trust what this person says about themselves more than the previous two.

The $64,000 question is how accurate is your self-perception of being harsh? How consistent is this across people you associate with? How do you know it's not one sensitive person thinking you're a big ol meanie or are you getting this from everybody? A key difference I notice between these people is the one who truly can be strident seems to think about it less often than the Great Pretenders. The other two are aware of the idea of how they come across, but not quite sure of how they come across. The other is aware of how she comes across, but the idea of it has to accessed so she can consciously change how she interacts.

 

[Moiety]

My guess? We are hiding what we feel, how we we care. To openly care for others feels like showing my flank, exposing my weakness to others. Exposing my gentler Fi judgments on people, rather than the harsher Te proclamation? The Te is typically "tough love". But very real love.

Exactly. People don't seem to get it though.

I dunno why.... If I openly tell you how much I care for you-that means something huge for me.

Definitely.

I am trying to work on this though-being more openly emotive as I do feel all this stuff inside and I think it is better to be able to actually express it-but yeah it is so weird, so not natural to do so.

Yeah, being a male I'm glad I'm not too open about certain things, because, let's face it, being a man or a woman in our society is different...and you know, sometimes I don't even know how good it is to actually express it...but I guess it frustrates me when people don't get how much I like them because of the way I act...it's just a weird ENFP paradox. You'd think I'd be expressive in certain ways, but then there's that whole being authentic thing...and being authentic is being rough around the edges...that's how I've always been...so it's all weird.

 

[Thalassa]

Is it more a matter of ExxP speaking before you think or is it knowing it's harsh but saying it anyway?

The second. I'm mean when I want to be. It's about being reactive, I think.

I'm an angel and a devil.

 

[sculpting]

I used to be wicked when I was younger, but I've (somewhat) mellowed out (a little bit) with time. That being said, I'm 30 and one of the older members on here (age-wise). Last I checked, most people were around 18-24. That makes a big difference.

I am 33-when younger I was so introverted nobody saw this. As I have become more extroverted it has become more obvious.

How consistent is this across people you associate with? How do you know it's not one sensitive person thinking you're a big ol meanie or are you getting this from everybody? A key difference I notice between these people is the one who truly can be strident seems to think about it less often than the Great Pretenders. The other two are aware of the idea of how they come across, but not quite sure of how they come across. The other is aware of how she comes across, but the idea of it has to accessed so she can consciously change how she interacts.

The real problem is inconsistency.

Yeah, being a male I'm glad I'm not too open about certain things, because, let's face it, being a man or a woman in our society is different...and you know, sometimes I don't even know how good it is to actually express it...but I guess it frustrates me when people don't get how much I like them because of the way I act...it's just a weird ENFP paradox. You'd think I'd be expressive in certain ways, but then there's that whole being authentic thing...and being authentic is being rough around the edges...that's how I've always been...so it's all weird.

Stypg-I have seen quite a few male enfps who sound a bit like you. This is actually quite important-you have ISTJ listed as your type-reflecting our ISTJ shadow I presume.

What about ESTJ? the overt blunt harshness... our extroverted nature combined with the TeSi at the bottom of our functional order? Think through it a bit...I see this the most when I need to exert control over a situation-especially in times where I need to protect myself emotionally. This is actually almost always as there are so few people I trust emotionally.

 

[Malkavia]

Yeah, being a male I'm glad I'm not too open about certain things, because, let's face it, being a man or a woman in our society is different...and you know, sometimes I don't even know how good it is to actually express it...but I guess it frustrates me when people don't get how much I like them because of the way I act...it's just a weird ENFP paradox. You'd think I'd be expressive in certain ways, but then there's that whole being authentic thing...and being authentic is being rough around the edges...that's how I've always been...so it's all weird.

I am open about it and because of that some people have asked if I'm gay . It can be awkward, but I still enjoy expressing how I feel to people so whatever.

I think being a male and being an ENFP can definitely be a paradox at times.

I do understand what youre saying though.

 

[Moiety]

Stypg-I have seen quite a few male enfps who sound a bit like you. This is actually quite important-you have ISTJ listed as your type-reflecting our ISTJ shadow I presume.

Yep. There was a period when I distinctively noticed it's influence, but I feel in comparison to most ENFPs, that it has always been there to an extent.

What about ESTJ? the overt blunt harshness... our extroverted nature combined with the TeSi at the bottom of our functional order? Think through it a bit...I see this the most when I need to exert control over a situation-especially in times where I need to protect myself emotionally. This is actually almost always as there are so few people I trust emotionally.

Someone has typed me as ESTJ before (admittedly, his knowledge of MBTI was limited). I think the Te is definitely present in the way you described in your earlier post. Si...hmm...I don't know where it would fit...I'm pretty I still use Ne and Fi a whole lot..it's really just in the way I convey the message that I often use Te instead of Fi....and now that I'm thinking about it, maybe, in the past, I've had the habit of stating things that COULD be (Ne) as things that would surely be because I've seen something similar [with a lot of BS thrown in] (Si).

I've thought about that though in regards to MBTI in general though. It makes more sense that one would continue to be extravert (hence leading with the alternative extravert function - Te) instead of leading with the opposite one (Si). All I know is that when I have been in my poorest....I hated everybody (not really just wanted them away from me lol) and was VERY anal and easily bothered by stupid details I would never worry about otherwise.

Talking about this is cool Orobas. You've made me feel like the healthiest version of an ENFP now. Thanks.

I am open about it and because of that some people have asked if I'm gay . It can be awkward, but I still enjoy expressing how I feel to people so whatever.

I think being a male and being an ENFP can definitely be a paradox at times.

I do understand what youre saying though.

Sometimes I kinda wish I was gay lol...that way society would more easily disregard me as a weird faggot and I could be all peace and love and empathy


PS: No offense Mr. Homosexuals.

 

[Laurie]

I offended an ISFJ (that I just met this weekend) who let me stay over her house all weekend by calling her poodle pathetic. I didn't mean it that way, really, it was just a game and it said poodle and I know she likes poodles so I used the card. I know it said pathetic but really, I meant it in a good way!

I've pretty much given up on not offending people and just stick with friends who don't get offended easily.

 

[Lady_X]

Yep. There was a period when I distinctively noticed it's influence, but I feel in comparison to most ENFPs, that it has always been there to an extent.



Someone has typed me as ESTJ before (admittedly, his knowledge of MBTI was limited). I think the Te is definitely present in the way you described in your earlier post. Si...hmm...I don't know where it would fit...I'm pretty I still use Ne and Fi a whole lot..it's really just in the way I convey the message that I often use Te instead of Fi....and now that I'm thinking about it, maybe, in the past, I've had the habit of stating things that COULD be (Ne) as things that would surely be because I've seen something similar [with a lot of BS thrown in] (Si).

I've thought about that though in regards to MBTI in general though. It makes more sense that one would continue to be extravert (hence leading with the alternative extravert function - Te) instead of leading with the opposite one (Si). All I know is that when I have been in my poorest....I hated everybody (not really just wanted them away from me lol) and was VERY anal and easily bothered by stupid details I would never worry about otherwise.

Talking about this is cool Orobas. You've made me feel like the healthiest version of an ENFP now. Thanks.



Sometimes I kinda wish I was gay lol...that way society would more easily disregard me as a weird faggot and I could be all peace and love and empathy


PS: No offense Mr. Homosexuals.

oh...well now that's interesting! sy! maybe you...due to cultural environment...upbringing whatever...have learned to totally overcompensate for all of that sweet squishy stuff inside by playing...and in the process becoming...the tough guy...just stop it and embrace your inner hippie!

edit: shit...don't be offended. i wasn't really serious.

 

[Lady_X]

I offended an ISFJ (that I just met this weekend) who let me stay over her house all weekend by calling her poodle pathetic. I didn't mean it that way, really, it was just a game and it said poodle and I know she likes poodles so I used the card. I know it said pathetic but really, I meant it in a good way!

I've pretty much given up on not offending people and just stick with friends who don't get offended easily.

ugh...i think i offended a friend...or two even... last night. i wish people knew i am not placing any judgment or hiding any negative meaning behind my words.

 

[Moiety]

oh...well now that's interesting! sy! maybe you...due to cultural environment...upbringing whatever...have learned to totally overcompensate for all of that sweet squishy stuff inside by playing...and in the process becoming...the tough guy...just stop it and embrace your inner hippie!

Well, Lady X, the thing is that like you said, I became the tough guy (or whatever) and due to Fi's nature...I cannot be untrue to how I've always been. Coherence and being authentic and all that.

But it's not that I'm THAT much of a dick I like the way I am for the most part...I'm just not effectively communicating sometimes...but I don't know if I would want to, because then people would be too shocked by what they saw.

It's not like I'm uncomfortable talking about feelings to an extreme extent...it's just that usually people don't talk about feelings anyway unless it's a one-on-one, they just hint at certain things with body language and indirect meaning in their words...basically that warmth that ENFPs supposedly exude ...I don't I don't know if I want to anyway though.

My words might not always show people a certain side of me, but my actions do I think (and that's how people manage to not think I'm a complete dick )

 

[Ming]

Pssh, being gay isn't that easy. But then again, the other side usually looks greener..

I'm blunt, but I'm not 'rude'. Frankly, I'm usually the polite one. (I'm a nice boy; it's in gay blood, what can I say?)

I really dislike people who are RUDE, as in swearing and bashing you for no reason. Saying insults at you, and stuff like that to degrade you.

However, I respect people who are HONEST. There's a difference between being true, and being a d*ckhead. I like people who are honest; but I like them to be polite + try not to be degrading.

 

[sculpting]

Someone has typed me as ESTJ before (admittedly, his knowledge of MBTI was limited). I think the Te is definitely present in the way you described in your earlier post. Si...hmm...I don't know where it would fit...I'm pretty I still use Ne and Fi a whole lot..it's really just in the way I convey the message that I often use Te instead of Fi....and now that I'm thinking about it, maybe, in the past, I've had the habit of stating things that COULD be (Ne) as things that would surely be because I've seen something similar [with a lot of BS thrown in] (Si).

My entp and I chatted about this today. She sees the same thing in her ENFP boss. ENFPs who are dipping into this Te will state things as FACT. Then ten minutes later will totally contradict the FACT and state another thing as FACT. When I do this typically I just had a new Ne insight, thus my FACTS really do differ. The new FACT is just as correct as the old one was-and now the old one is wrong. Mentally I have no issue with this.

Yeah, this gives her fucking seizures.

WRT to "with a whole lot of BS thrown in" do you find you just make up ballpark numbers when you rationalize things. I find I like the number 47. Little linguist used "1000%" in another thread. I am also about "80%" correct. I just totally made that up but it seems about right. With no data at all, except my vague Ne rumblings of accuracy. I do this all the time. And honestly, it works-especially for areas that allow for massive bullshit anyways-like strategic marketing. I have vague Ne hunches, then find BS numbers with massive error in BS . Magic=Marketing Plan.

I've thought about that though in regards to MBTI in general though. It makes more sense that one would continue to be extravert (hence leading with the alternative extravert function - Te) instead of leading with the opposite one (Si). All I know is that when I have been in my poorest....I hated everybody (not really just wanted them away from me lol) and was VERY anal and easily bothered by stupid details I would never worry about otherwise.

Talking about this is cool Orobas. You've made me feel like the healthiest version of an ENFP now. Thanks.

haha. You are kinda my mirror silly!

Yeah-If the above is correct I'd expect pissed off unhappy INFPs to actually look like ISTJs and get all crazy about what other people "should" or "should not" do-except about feelings, not tax returns.

And us ENFPs?-like emo, nuerotic, prickly ESTJs who get real pissy about details in our enviornment. It sounds a bit too close to home unfortunatley, but you gotta start with the truth I suppose.