[Fi] Fi users

[INTPness]

First, I should say that I don't post this to criticize INFP's and ENFP's. I'm just wanting to understand.

I watched a show on TV tonight where couples who were in love many years ago reunite to try to rekindle the connection that was once there. In this instance, the man left the woman many years ago because he said that for the first time in his life he wanted "him" and "her" to be "we". So, he told her that he loved her. She responded with something like, "Thank you for saying that, but I can't say the same thing."

Fast forward today (probably 20 years later), they meet again. He says to her, "You obviously didn't love me because you couldn't reciprocate the words that I expressed to you. So I had to end it right there."

She says, "That's why you left me? Couldn't you tell from my actions that I loved you? You're the one who broke my heart by leaving." All these years, they each thought that they were the one who had their heart broken.

This runs parallel to my experiences with Fi users. Here is what is so frustrating. To that lady I would say, "No! He did not know just by your actions that you loved him. If the man you love expresses that to you, why can't you just say it back to him and show some vulnerability? Why does he have to go to the trouble of rationalizing in his mind, 'Well, she says she can't say the same thing, but I don't believe her. Based on her actions I think she really does love me, so I'll stay with her.'?

If she can't say it, why should he believe it? To Fi users, why shouldn't he have left her 20 years ago?

 

[Laurie]

Maybe she wasn't grown up enough to know what love was but later look back and realized that she did love him. I'm not answering an Fi question, just a relationship question.

Does ISFP lead with Fi? Why would it be more ENFP than ISFP? Or why not ESFP?

 

[heart]

This runs parallel to my experiences with Fi users. Here is what is so frustrating. To that lady I would say, "No! He did not know just by your actions that you loved him. If the man you love expresses that to you, why can't you just say it back to him and show some vulnerability? Why does he have to go to the trouble of rationalizing in his mind, 'Well, she says she can't say the same thing, but I don't believe her. Based on her actions I think she really does love me, so I'll stay with her.'?

If she can't say it, why should he believe it? To Fi users, why shouldn't he have left her 20 years ago?

I don't agree with the woman and I don't agree that's an accurate portrayal of Fe verses Fi. She sounds like she didn't know what she wanted back then and now wants to re-write history.

 

[Lady_X]

why is this a fi issue?

i think they're both in the wrong for not communicating effectively. they both ended it based on assumptions and it doesn't seem like either put forth any effort to gain understanding.

now...if i were him. i would've heard it the same way but i would've talked with her more about it.

and if i were her and for some reason had some issue with saying the words i would've told him about it and assured him that i felt the same.

i don't believe her. i think she realized after he left how she felt and it was too late.

 

[INTPness]

Maybe she wasn't grown up enough to know what love was but later look back and realized that she did love him. I'm not answering an Fi question, just a relationship question.

Does ISFP lead with Fi? Why would it be more ENFP than ISFP? Or why not ESFP?

I addressed ENFP's and INFP's because this is the NF forum, with types that I have primarily dated in the past.

 

[Nomorenames]

First, I should say that I don't post this to criticize INFP's and ENFP's. I'm just wanting to understand.

I watched a show on TV tonight where couples who were in love many years ago reunite to try to rekindle the connection that was once there. In this instance, the man left the woman many years ago because he said that for the first time in his life he wanted "him" and "her" to be "we". So, he told her that he loved her. She responded with something like, "Thank you for saying that, but I can't say the same thing."

Fast forward today (probably 20 years later), they meet again. He says to her, "You obviously didn't love me because you couldn't reciprocate the words that I expressed to you. So I had to end it right there."

She says, "That's why you left me? Couldn't you tell from my actions that I loved you? You're the one who broke my heart by leaving." All these years, they each thought that they were the one who had their heart broken.

This runs parallel to my experiences with Fi users. Here is what is so frustrating. To that lady I would say, "No! He did not know just by your actions that you loved him. If the man you love expresses that to you, why can't you just say it back to him and show some vulnerability? Why does he have to go to the trouble of rationalizing in his mind, 'Well, she says she can't say the same thing, but I don't believe her. Based on her actions I think she really does love me, so I'll stay with her.'?

If she can't say it, why should he believe it? To Fi users, why shouldn't he have left her 20 years ago?

Time does funny things to memory. I think it's possible both felt they were the victims and justified their feelings without, possibly, truly taking the other into account. I can believe they both felt they had their heartbroken, but that's a result of the choices both of them made.

As for the question about Fi:

This runs parallel to my experiences with Fi users. Here is what is so frustrating....If the man you love expresses that to you, why can't you just say it back to him and show some vulnerability?

Simply put- it would have been inauthentic to state that. It wasn't a matter of opening up and being vulnerable. If this is about Fi, it's about authenticity, it's about congruence.

Perhaps she couldn't reciprocate because she didn't know her genuine feelings at the time (it takes a while to process the "L" word for many people). Perhaps her conception of love differed from his. Perhaps she didn't want the same thing as the guy.

Saying "But I really did love you" all those years later seems like a rationalization meant to keep the consistency of her memory distorted by time and feelings.

Also:

Why does he have to go to the trouble of rationalizing in his mind, 'Well, she says she can't say the same thing, but I don't believe her. Based on her actions I think she really does love me, so I'll stay with her.'?

He doesn't. Stating that you can't reciprocate isn't necessarily a request to perform some mental gymnastics in order to keep the cognitive dissonance in check.

EDIT: well, looks like I shouldn't have bothered since I'm repeating what's been said. Ha!

 

[INTPness]

why is this a fi issue?

Well, maybe I'm wrong and it's not an Fi issue at all. But, my experiences with Fi users is that these types of conversations are difficult for them. They've even told me that it was extremely difficult for them to say things like that.

When I watched the show, it was like watching my own conversations with INFP/ENFP's all over again.

 

[INTPness]

Also:

He doesn't. Stating that you can't reciprocate isn't necessarily a request to perform some mental gymnastics in order to keep the cognitive dissonance in check.

I know he doesn't have to do mental gymnastics. But, that's the whole reason she's been left without him for the last 20 years and been sad because of it.

 

[professor goodstain]

i'll bet at the time they both weren't ready for commitment and mutually used whatever they could to get out. then, years later, they are fenageling ways to get it heated up again or somethin.
how in the hell do they even remember so precisely exactly how things went down back then anyway

 

[Laurie]

It's cute that an INTP is watching crappy TV and blaming it on NFPs. <3

 

[Nomorenames]

I know he doesn't have to do mental gymnastics. But, that's the whole reason she's been left without him for the last 20 years and been sad because of it.

20 years is awfully long for a pity party. Whatever floats her boat.

 

[INTPness]

how in the hell do they even remember so precisely exactly how things went down back then anyway

Oh, I remember things like that with precision. Not that I'm trying to hang on to old things, but because they were critical, intense, game-changing moments in my life. How could I forget them?

 

[INTPness]

It's cute that an INTP is watching crappy TV and blaming it on NFPs. <3

Ha ha! I'm not blaming anyone. I love NFP's. I just don't get why if you love someone (she said to him, "I loved you then and I love you now. I've always loved you.), why is it difficult to let that be known? Not even to the whole world - just to the one you love? One-on-one, open and honest intimacy.

I mean these guys were both sad all these years because of this misunderstanding. To the point where they said it would be tragic if it didn't work out this time.

INTP: I love you toots.
INFP/ENFP: I love you too you big lug.

End of story. Happily ever after. Simple. Why is that difficult?

 

[Lady_X]

Well, maybe I'm wrong and it's not an Fi issue at all. But, my experiences with Fi users is that these types of conversations are difficult for them. They've even told me that it was extremely difficult for them to say things like that.

When I watched the show, it was like watching my own conversations with INFP/ENFP's all over again.

well as a fi user... if someone says they love me and i'm not sure of how i feel. i cannot will not ever say that i felt the same. i can't lie about it...can't do it to be nice not even if they want me to. it's not difficult for me to say if it's true...in fact as an Enfp i would have to say it as soon as i knew it because it will feel inauthentic not to.

 

[Thalassa]

I don't know because I wouldn't do that. Are you sure this is about Fi?

If I love people I tell them. I show them. I don't expect people to just figure it out.

 

[INTPness]

OK, maybe I'm just wrong about it being difficult for Fi to express this stuff.

I had an ENFP tell me that I broke her heart. I said, "You never even told me flat out that your heart was invested."

ENFP: Well it was.
Me: Why didn't you tell me?
ENFP: It's hard. I don't just do that.

Had another ENFP tell me that it made her very uncomfortable to use the L word.

Just two aberrations, perhaps.

 

[Laurie]

So it's not really about the show...

 

[heart]

Possibly you find emotionally confused women attractive? That it's not NFP but the NFP that you find attractive?

 

[Charmed Justice]

Aw, I was watching First Love, Second Chance tonight too. That couple was so adorable; great story.

Anyway, I'm just answering this as a relationship question. There are so many reasons why people might be uneasy about saying "I love you", even if they may feel it. I'd say it has little, if anything, to do with Fi(or any other cognitive function). I denied my feelings for someone before because we were both seeing other people, and I needed time to sort things out in my own mind before I said something life changing. It's often the case that people run from strong feelings. That's not Fi, it's just human.

 

[Thalassa]

OK, maybe I'm just wrong about it being difficult for Fi to express this stuff.

I had an ENFP tell me that I broke her heart. I said, "You never even told me flat out that your heart was invested."

ENFP: Well it was.
Me: Why didn't you tell me?
ENFP: It's hard. I don't just do that.

Had another ENFP tell me that it made her very uncomfortable to use the L word.

Just two aberrations, perhaps.

Or I'm an ENFJ.