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Thread: ENFP & Ti

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Yeah, it is very hard to find a lot of info on what Ti is like for ENFP's.

    Berens' description of Trickster Fi (EFP's):

    They are usually not interested in identifying principles or categorizing, but under stress they tend to be deceived into engaging, accepting, and rigidly following selected principles, thinking that doing so will ensure success when it really won't. They may make statements or believe in ideas that are contradictory and illogical. Yet at times they can delight in exploring models and frameworks.


    Also, Beebe himself describes its positive side more in this interview by an ENFP, where he describes her INTP husband as providing "a source of humor about introverts" or something like that:
    http:// http://www.centerpointec.com/files/t...evelopment.pdf
    The part that seems the most Ti to me is when an NFP is more trying to use logic to back up Fi. Possibly reached after the bolded section. Eventually the logical contradictions start to surface mentally, they are analyzed and processed, and they are able to take on Ti as a tool to back Fi.
    Im out, its been fun

  2. #62
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    But did you read it??? I MEAN REALLY??? It's just...wow, this explains....it explains everything I couldn't explain and thought I was just weird or couldn't function like others....but it really, really explains. And all these wonderful metaphors, and just.... okay give me a minute.

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    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Just wanted to add that the way I experience Ti is not in opposition or support of Fi necessarily, but as an alternative way to look at things. Whenever it's not an issue of right or wrong...I'm inclined to use Ti to some degree too.

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    Wow, I'm just way too excited about this interview right now to really give an accurate analysis. I feel like there are fireworks in my brain. I have to let my synapses calm down, process, and then I can present my ideas about it. I don't know why I have such a strong reaction to it, but it was just....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    Wow, I'm just way too excited about this interview right now to really give an accurate analysis. I feel like there are fireworks in my brain. I have to let my synapses calm down, process, and then I can present my ideas about it. I don't know why I have such a strong reaction to it, but it was just....
    Its intuition combined with desire causing confusion
    Im out, its been fun

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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    Its intuition combined with desire causing confusion
    Indeed!!!!!!! Well spotted. So, you did read it, I see!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    Indeed!!!!!!! Well spotted. So, you did read it, I see!
    Yes, it hit me in a different manner then it hit you

    edit: actually everytime I read it I grab something new. It contains a whole lot of information in this single interview.
    Im out, its been fun

  8. #68
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teslashock View Post
    +1

    This thread is silly.

    Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go show my INFP how to use Ti by teaching her a little C++. Then I'm going to hone in a bit on my own Fi by creating a really unique painting representative of my current emotional state.

    ()
    tee-hee


    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    if you think they're wrong is it because you think they're not understanding you? i'm curious about how ne and ti work together for you...is it an instant understanding of a situation in logical terms? because i feel like i instantly get things too..and get frustrated when it takes awhile for the other person to understand or assume that i don't because my opinion is different....but i'm truly asking because i'm not sure if the way we come to a conclusion has merit in all instances. is it just going with the gut instinct based on fi? and does that make it more inaccurate or just different?
    Sorry I somehow missed this post until now.

    The "instantly getting it" that you refer to is, I believe, best described as Ne. All at once you just recognize the relationship between a bunch of different variables as all part of some larger pattern that changes the meaning of each individual variable and everything just falls into place. That much we (ENTPs and ENFPs) definitely have in common.

    But the discrepancy comes in the criteria upon which we evaluate the information that we take in. The frustration you're talking about when others don't get it as quickly as you is usually not a problem between ENTP and ENFP--I feel like we can both pretty easily follow each other's reasoning process (Ne), but that each of us thinks the other is starting from flawed premises (due to Ti/Fe vs. Fi/Te difference.)

    As I said earlier we both have strong preconceived notions about how to evaluate ideas, stemming mostly from Ti vs. Fi, so when it's a situation where we already have the value in question clearly defined (i.e., one requiring introverted judgment), we'll both make very quick decisions. But each of us will almost immediately see how the other reached his conclusion, recognize the "flaw" in the other's judgment process, and start making up more examples and analogies to "correct" the other.

    So in short, ENTPs and ENFPs can be great friends as long as we focus on doing stuff that we both find interesting and entertaining, and not talking too much about moral/political/philosophical disagreements

    Anyway, I don't think anyone's conclusions have merit in all instances. Ti and Fi are sort of "gut feelings" because they lead to decisions based on subjective standards for evaluation, which the user simply "knows" are right. Like all introverted functions, they are based on evaluating the outside world in the context of personal subjective criteria, so they can at times be disconnected from what is objectively demonstrable. ENTPs tend to find logic innately obvious (Ti) but consider ethics something that has to be defined by external conditions (Fe), while ENFPs do the opposite (Fi/Te.)

    Sometimes operating on subjective judgment can make our conclusions less accurate...sometimes it just makes them different. This is really context-dependent, and evaluating "accuracy" is going to depend on your preferred judgment faculties anyway. But if you're worried that Fi is making you inaccurate (which sounds like a Te thing), try to differentiate between situations that need to be dealt with subjectively (where you will listen to Fi/your conscience) vs. objectively (where you will let Te guide you according to objectively verifiable external standards.)

    Surely each will be right some of the time, and trying to figure out which situations are which is part of everyone's growth and development.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

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    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teslashock View Post
    +1

    This thread is silly.

    Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go show my INFP how to use Ti by teaching her a little C++. Then I'm going to hone in a bit on my own Fi by creating a really unique painting representative of my current emotional state.

    ()
    You think it's coincidence that Ti is useful in programming and that TPs tend to have a knack for it?

    Do you think the same parts of the brain, can't be stimulated by activities that require that kind of analysis?

  10. #70
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    You think it's coincidence that Ti is useful in programming and that TPs tend to have a knack for it?

    Do you think the same parts of the brain, can't be stimulated by activities that require that kind of analysis?
    Ti is a perspective, not a skill set. There are certain skill sets that people who naturally see from the Ti perspective have a tendency to be good at, but imitating those skills doesn't necessitate actually seeing from that perspective. It usually just results in figuring out how to perform that skill from the standpoint of your own preferred functional perspectives.

    For ENFPs this means that figuring out something like programming is usually going to be done in Te terms, which is why it's a little harder for most ENFPs but not impossible if they're willing to dedicate the time to studying it. They're going to tend to think about it from a more objective standpoint than ENTPs...they will focus on "What shows objective results?", where the Ti user will build an internal framework for understanding it purely out of a desire to complete the puzzle and understand the relationships that make it internally consistent.

    Either approach can lead to successful programming, but each person is going to internalize the information and conceptualize the system differently.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

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