User Tag List

First 89101112 Last

Results 91 to 100 of 113

Thread: ENFP & Ti

  1. #91
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ISFJ
    Posts
    6,020

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    Im saying that its hard for Fi users to take an totally objective point of view. hmm how could i explain it.. what ever introverted judging function you have, the opposite judging function will be extraverted. This is because you cant have both thinking and feeling as introverted functions at same time, its more natural to extravert the opposite judging function.
    Are you saying this because your Ti arrived to that conclusion by itself, or was it your Si that was directly influenced by MBTI theories?

    My issue here, is with it "being natural". It's not being objectively analyzed in any real way. It seems like a paradigm that was created around an idea of elegance. Yes, the Ti in me is also a fan of symmetry and the conservation of linear momentum...but I see many here adopting a very un-Ti way of looking at things...I don't think we are being very objective here and taking FACTS into consideration without personal involvement. I think there is a somewhat inherent logic to how cognition works, but some are basing their views on axioms that are being taken for granted.


    If you take point of view that includes personal values/how you feel about it(Fi), it just is no longer an objective point of view(Ti).
    There IS subjectiveness in Ti. Just look at Einstein's refusal in accepting quantum mechanics. That's a good example. You say Fi is personal values and how your feel about it. I say Ti is personal axioms (things you know to be true just as an FP has things which he knows to be right) and how you think about it.


    But if there is something that you actually cant form an Fi judgement about, then it would be more easier to use Ti on it.
    Well, exactly. What use is my Fi if I'm programming, or solving a riddle, or seeing how a mechanical contraption works?

    Still, I notice it very clearly in myself...that even when dealing with people, I can detach myself from my own opinion on things. And coherence in dealing with analogous situations is paramount.

  2. #92
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/so
    Posts
    1,565

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    Fi has one too, it's called congruence. And if any FP tells you otherwise, tell him or her to go fuck themselves.
    I'm a little puzzled by your response. As an Fi-dom, I agree that Fi has its own internal logic (it's a rational process), and I think its judgments are just as valid as Ti's are. I just think it's harder to communicate and evaluate from a distance than Ti is. I definitely agree with your later posting that Ti has a subjective (if still logically-based) quality to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    i know what your saying and think its true, its just that you are not using the exact right words in my opinion

    what does leg up on mean?
    It means "has an advantage over." Fi has its own strengths, of course.

  3. #93
    Senior Member Chloe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    2,204

    Default

    it takes a looot energy for me to use Ti ... and to read something written in Ti way. Te is much more natural.
    When I've done maths I used Ne-Te

  4. #94
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    STP
    Posts
    10,501

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    There IS subjectiveness in Ti. Just look at Einstein's refusal in accepting quantum mechanics. That's a good example. You say Fi is personal values and how your feel about it. I say Ti is personal axioms (things you know to be true just as an FP has things which he knows to be right) and how you think about it.
    On a tangent, this reminds me of my son.

    Son: "If this then this right?"
    Me: "No"
    Son: "But if this then this right"
    Me: "No, didnt you just ask me that exact same question"
    Son: "But if this then this?"
    Me: "Do you not listen? What did I say?"
    Son: "But if this then this?"
    Me: "If thats what you want to believe, try it"

    To me Ti is not so straight forward. My answer at times when I really want to explain is if you do this then this or if this then this other thing or if it happens this way then this other thing. Hardset logic really cannot be applied, you must achieve an understanding, but understanding takes time and experience.

    So ENFPs CAN use Ti but it takes time and experience to logically understand how and why in regards to all the different paths.
    Im out, its been fun

  5. #95
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ISFJ
    Posts
    6,020

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    I'm a little puzzled by your response. As an Fi-dom, I agree that Fi has its own internal logic (it's a rational process), and I think its judgments are just as valid as Ti's are. I just think it's harder to communicate and evaluate from a distance than Ti is.
    I think both Fi and Ti are all about congruence and coherence. So evaluating those judgements from a distance...is not that hard. If a person is bending itself to accommodate the context in his/her judgement, then he/she is using Fe and not Fi. Sure, feelings are slightly trickier to explain on paper, but after that is done, it's easy to see if a person's values make sense as all parts of the same puzzle.

    That is why every FP should strive for excellence in communication (i.e. English or whatever language).

  6. #96
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    STP
    Posts
    10,501

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    I think both Fi and Ti are all about congruence and coherence. So evaluating those judgements from a distance...is not that hard. If a person is bending itself to accommodate the context in his/her judgement, then he/she is using Fe and not Fi. Sure, feelings are slightly trickier to explain on paper, but after that is done, it's easy to see if a person's values make sense as all parts of the same puzzle.

    That is why every FP should strive for excellence in communication (i.e. English or whatever language).
    I feel like I actually bend with Fi, but it is generally because of my Fe. I try not to get myself in a position where I have to bend because of Te. It would royally screw up my internal logic and probably cause a tumbling effect, its easier to get past the emotional of taking a hit for Te then it is to screw with my internal logic and use it to bend. I do bend with Fi though as my values are in regard to being true in what I logically think.
    Im out, its been fun

  7. #97
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ISFJ
    Posts
    6,020

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    I feel like I actually bend with Fi, but it is generally because of my Fe. I try not to get myself in a position where I have to bend because of Te. It would royally screw up my internal logic and probably cause a tumbling effect, its easier to get past the emotional of taking a hit for Te then it is to screw with my internal logic and use it to bend. I do bend with Fi though as my values are in regard to being true in what I logically think.
    Sure, one can arrive to Fi values in numerous different ways....but a healthy user of Fi will be annoyed at himself/herself if the different values aren't congruent with one another. Obviously in your case, Ti is superseding Fi, so it's a more plausible scenario.


    I notice I have an aversion to how seemingly fluid other ENFPs can be when dealing with the world, but I've come to the conclusion this is due to me almost invariably using less Fe than they do.

  8. #98
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    intp
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx
    Posts
    7,823

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    Are you saying this because your Ti arrived to that conclusion by itself, or was it your Si that was directly influenced by MBTI theories?
    i learned about this from mbti and verified it with Ti. I have noticed this kind of patterns in peoples thinking styles way before i learned about mbti.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    My issue here, is with it "being natural". It's not being objectively analyzed in any real way. It seems like a paradigm that was created around an idea of elegance. Yes, the Ti in me is also a fan of symmetry and the conservation of linear momentum...but I see many here adopting a very un-Ti way of looking at things...I don't think we are being very objective here and taking FACTS into consideration without personal involvement. I think there is a somewhat inherent logic to how cognition works, but some are basing their views on axioms that are being taken for granted.
    What if the "being natural" is analyzed by objective way of thinking?


    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    There IS subjectiveness in Ti. Just look at Einstein's refusal in accepting quantum mechanics. That's a good example. You say Fi is personal values and how your feel about it. I say Ti is personal axioms (things you know to be true just as an FP has things which he knows to be right) and how you think about it.
    have you considered that maybe einstein didnt accept the theory of quantum physics because he couldnt find an objective solution to it? It doesent mean that something would be looked from subjective point of view if you reject it because you can find an objective solution to it. The decision would still be made from objective point of view.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    Well, exactly. What use is my Fi if I'm programming, or solving a riddle, or seeing how a mechanical contraption works?

    Still, I notice it very clearly in myself...that even when dealing with people, I can detach myself from my own opinion on things. And coherence in dealing with analogous situations is paramount.
    i didnt say that enfps are unable to use Ti. i told that its easier to use it when you use it on something that doesent allow you to use Fi on it.

  9. #99
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    xNFP
    Posts
    6,885

    Default

    How can I explain it? When I am 'impersonal' in my decision-making or analysis, it often takes the form of cost-benefit analysis or step-by-step linear thought - not something that is associated with Ti, I believe, or have I understood Ti incorrectly?

    Te is something I use all the time in my analysis (linguistic or sociological) and also in my academic writing. And since Te is the workhorse of Ne/Fi, it is 'comfortable' for me - SolitaryWalker addressed this one time when he said something to the effect of - and I am paraphrasing - you can use Te and it is only comfortable for you because it works in the context of something you enjoy.

  10. #100
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    STP
    Posts
    10,501

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    Sure, one can arrive to Fi values in numerous different ways....but a healthy user of Fi will be annoyed at himself/herself if the different values aren't congruent with one another. Obviously in your case, Ti is superseding Fi, so it's a more plausible scenario.


    I notice I have an aversion to how seemingly fluid other ENFPs can be when dealing with the world, but I've come to the conclusion this is due to me almost invariably using less Fe than they do.
    I understand what your saying because I do hit Fi values and they constantly change and are 100% dependent on the situation. When I hit a Fi value I have to change the situation in some way or another. I notice that ENFPs are very flexible in changing things as long as it doesnt hit one of their values. They respect others Fi values and would like their Fi values respected in return.

    So you would say that you err on the side of caution where as an ENFP errs on the side of adapting.

    edit: to explain the Fi changing of values, its like 2 things cannot exist at once. I can have one or the other, but not both at once or if these 2 exist then this other thing needs to be present. Things like that.
    Im out, its been fun

Similar Threads

  1. [ENFP] Hate an ENFP? Tell us why!
    By findthejake in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 1133
    Last Post: 12-08-2017, 02:44 PM
  2. [JCF] Ti/Fe vs Fi/Te (ENTP/ENFP)
    By MadTeaParty in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-24-2016, 05:53 AM
  3. [JCF] Difference between Ne-Fi (ENFP) and Ne-Ti (ENTP)
    By Brian2626 in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 12-21-2015, 04:25 PM
  4. So I think I'm an ENFP with a strong Ti.
    By The Great One in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 01-14-2015, 06:28 AM
  5. [ENFP] enfp's fact or fiction
    By targobelle in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 458
    Last Post: 05-24-2009, 03:07 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO