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  1. #1
    Senior Member Malkavia's Avatar
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    Default Trying to get an ENFJ to listen

    So I have two roommates who are twins...an ENFJ and an INTJ. These two kids have major communication problems.

    Pretty much what it comes down to is my ENFJ (who is my best friend and love to death) just doesnt give words of affirmation to his brother. Honestly I can relate to this because he doesnt really do anything for me either. Even though this guy is an INTJ he needs love too, especially from his own brother.

    I can NOT get this through the ENFJ's head. He refuses to listen to anyones ideas but his own, and his are ALWAYS much better and more righteous. How could I, a silly ENFP, know the relationship of him and his brother? It sucks seeing his brother suffer because I can see him hurting, and whats worse I kind of understand where he is coming from.

    Ok rant over. Now on to constructive criticism.

    Is there anyway to tell an ENFJ, "look your being a d-bag and you need to listen to me" in a nice way? He just doesnt seem to take what I say into consideration which is annoying, especially when I am more than sure that my solution is the right one. Ive talked to this INTJ about it, I know what he wants, and Im trying to help my best friend out with this but he wont LISTEN.
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  2. #2
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    I tend to think that two Js with substantially differing basic priorities, if they can listen to each other at all, do so after the fact. In function terms, they're best off trying to add something to what the other one does later when they each go off to get some introverted space. But when the two are talking directly to each other, it's all J all the time. And in the case of FJ vs TJ, that means substantial perspective conflicts. But if they're both NJ there is some chance that they can offer ideas of possibilities that ring bells later. Not that this will ever be especially satisfying in the moment.

    Or just, "Dude, you're wishing for the kind of relationship that won't happen and you're using force to achieve it. Give him some space to do what he does best. You might even like him better for it." Neither will believe it in the moment, but they might see it later.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

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  3. #3
    Guerilla Urbanist Brendan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malkavia View Post
    So I have two roommates who are twins...an ENFJ and an INTJ.


    Ahh. I'm sorry
    Quote Originally Posted by Malkavia View Post
    Is there anyway to tell an ENFJ, "look your being a d-bag and you need to listen to me" in a nice way? He just doesnt seem to take what I say into consideration which is annoying, especially when I am more than sure that my solution is the right one. Ive talked to this INTJ about it, I know what he wants, and Im trying to help my best friend out with this but he wont LISTEN.
    Be sincere. Don't make an effort to be nice. That doesn't mean make an effort to be mean but just be honest. We know when it's time to listen (most of the time).
    There is no such thing as separation from God.

  4. #4
    Level 8 Propaganda Bot SpankyMcFly's Avatar
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    My credentials: Married to an ENFJ 9+ years.

    Direct confrontation = fail. Telling them they are wrong = fail. Telling them what to do = fail.

    What has worked for me is a subtle approach. Get them to step outside themselves and view the matter from a different perspective. Start from the outside, then when you sense a bit of understanding on their part make a move to the inside and ask them how they would "feel" (this part is critical) if they were in the other persons shoes. Do not judge, do not direct. Empathize and let them know you understand why they are acting that way. Show them the potential positive effects of a changed approach. They will turn their judgment onto themselves (in the hypothetical you painted) and possibly realize that maybe a new approach is needed.

    The point here is not to show them what needs to change per se, or even how to go about changing it (they can/will probably figure this out on their own, some advise can't hurt though), but in convincing them that a change would be a good thing and is "needed".

    "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink"
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age. " - H.P. Lovecraft

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    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    I know nothing about enfjs, but when telling people that they are wrong and/or what they should do doesent work, i try to make them think by themselves by pointing out things that are not working and asking them questions like why do you think that hes feeling bad and what do you think that could be done that he wouldnt feel bad. If he is unable to answer those question it will prove to them that they dont know better what should be done. In some situations(if they wont understand it by themselves) i might say them after that you were unable to answer these simple questions, so why do you think you know this all better than people who are able to answer to the questions.

  6. #6
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    How certain are we of the ENFJ's type? It's usually the NTJ who would have a much harder time giving positive affirmation when it's needed. In fact, the ENFJs I know often seem to give too much positive affirmation even when it's not warranted...
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  7. #7
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    ^...or it could be that the ENFJ knows the INTJ doesn't need positive affirmation.

    From experience.
    A search for truth is a search for a greedy perspective.

    Nah, that's not truth. That's just your bullshit ideas of truth. Truth is always inclusive. If it's not inclusive, then toughen it up and try harder.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Malkavia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    How certain are we of the ENFJ's type? It's usually the NTJ who would have a much harder time giving positive affirmation when it's needed. In fact, the ENFJs I know often seem to give too much positive affirmation even when it's not warranted...
    100%. I remember he took the test himself and it said "the teacher" first. He talked for about 20 minutes about he is definitely the "the teacher" because he loves to educate people and blah blah blah...

    Then he read the description and said both the negative and positive aspects fit him well. He didnt really go into MBTI more. But as I have learned about the functions and the effects of having those functions, I have become more sure he is an ENFJ. Reading the posts of other ENFJs on this forum have helped also. Although they are not 100% on target, they are usually in the same region.

    I know this doesnt seem like ENFJ behavior but maybe its because hes male? He's also contracted to go into the army after we graduate. It could be from being around that type of military culture constantly. I dont know, just throwing things out there.

    Its interesting. Because he can spend a night in a tent helping the homeless in Houston for a week (no, really), but he cant help those hes closest to when they need something small.

    I think a major problem is neither have said anything like this in a very long time and they are afraid its going to be awkward. Buts it creating a wall in their relationship which then makes it bad for me because I live with them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    ^...or it could be that the ENFJ knows the INTJ doesn't need positive affirmation.

    From experience.
    He does. The INTJ even told me he needs it. (Why he doesnt tell his twin, I dont know)

    Just got to say, I really love these guys. Dont want to come off as someone who complains constantly or someones whos bitchy. I just have no idea what to do.

  9. #9
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    It may help a little in that my older brother is an ExFJ, and I know his ENFP girlfriend often uses a trick where she'll casually 'remind' him of some idea he had-- once he believes the idea was his own, he is a lot more willing to go along with it. I, myself, do not promote manipulating people in anyway, but I feel that this suggestion could maybe help in pushing your ENFJ buddy in the right direction.
    Also, you say that it's making things complicated for you-- tell them both that, and see if you can mediate a discussion between them. I bet if they care about you, they'll be willing to put some sort of work into it if you're frank with them.

  10. #10
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    I'd probably second the above. Direct criticism just tends to make ENFJs dig their heels in and react defensively, no matter how deserved it may appear. Agreeing with them conditionally and dropping hints on where you disagree to make them think about their conduct is often the best approach, I think.
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