User Tag List

Results 1 to 10 of 10

  1. #1
    Guerilla Urbanist Brendan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Posts
    911

    Question NF's: How to Practice Tertiary and Inferior Functions?

    I'm an ENFJ. I like to think I'm rather intelligent. But I feel like intelligence is only half the battle, I'd like to be of a well rounded intelligence.

    My Sensing (Se) and Thinking (Ti) functions are weak. Weaker than I'd like them to be at least. I have no problem with logic (mathematics has always been the subject I enjoy most). The problem comes when my feelings masquerade as thoughts. I've noticed a pattern in my critical thinking: it often tends to work overdrive to support my moral convictions and value judgements.

    This doesn't really sit right with me. I think that impartial evaluation plays an integral role in well rounded moral convictions and value judgements. Essentially, if I can't let go of my emotions and just step back and fairly evaluate a situation, I don't have a clear picture. How can I claim to be a "good, fair person" or to be making the "right decision" if I can't see all perspectives?

    Sounds easy enough, but experience says otherwise. How does one recognize what function they are using and when? I believe that all functions are used in tandem all the time, but how do we, as NF's, recognize when our logical thoughts are surrendering to our feelings, when our feelings are disguising themselves as thoughts, or when our feelings push our thoughts out of the way all together?

    :workout:
    There is no such thing as separation from God.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    1,335

    Default

    This is a rather simple suggestion.

    Just read more books about ethics and start playing the devils advocate with some of your firm beliefs. Eventually you'll see that it all comes down to personal feelings, but most people will have some form of justification for their positions. It's kind of like working backwards and forwards to ensure consistency within the belief systems.

  3. #3
    Guerilla Urbanist Brendan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Posts
    911

    Default

    You know, that's actually a really good suggestion.
    There is no such thing as separation from God.

  4. #4
    Glycerine
    Guest

    Default

    One word: school! Taking a lot of science and math classes can really build up Ti. Any heavily detailed can build up Se... like a natural science class w/ a lab. I think I have an average use of Ti and am slowly developing Se. These are the reasons why school stresses me. Also try to hang out with some IXTPs if they can stand you and you can stand them. (just kidding...).

  5. #5
    Supreme High Commander Andy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6
    Posts
    1,108

    Default

    Learn to recognise the situations that cause your feelings to sell out and misuse logic, then watch for them in the future... then watch yourself!

  6. #6
    Senior Member paradox fox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4
    Posts
    134

    Default

    What exactly is logic? I don't work with numbers or systems of information very often, so the way I use "logic" in my life may not be what logic traditionally is. To me logic means cause-and-effect and thinking things through. My thought process goes like this: "If I do this, that or that will happen." "This and this happened, and here are a few explanations for what may have been behind it." "These are the principles underlying my behavior." Hence I like to think I use logic from time to time. What does logic mean to you?

    Taking classes where you have to analyze a lot of stuff is a good way to develop Ti. I took an etymology (word meanings and origins) class in college, which was really enjoyable for me. I liked it because it involved something I use every day and is personally important to me (words) and it taught me to express myself better and understand people better. But since the process of analyzing words is pretty systemic it helps with logical thinking.

    I've gotten better at using Se, but I don't think I can explain it without it sounding cheesy. I search for the beauty in things around me, the detailed scales and cracks in tree bark, the way the breeze moves through the cedar trees, the bright green colors in the rhododendron leaves, etc. (I'm sitting in the library, looking out the window right now.) I don't know, just noticing and enjoying what's around you.

    I hope that helps in some way. Or maybe I just have no idea what I'm talking about.
    Just because I'm an INFP doesn't mean I'm emo!

  7. #7
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    MBTI
    GONE
    Posts
    9,051

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Brendan View Post
    Sounds easy enough, but experience says otherwise. How does one recognize what function they are using and when? I believe that all functions are used in tandem all the time, but how do we, as NF's, recognize when our logical thoughts are surrendering to our feelings, when our feelings are disguising themselves as thoughts, or when our feelings push our thoughts out of the way all together?

    :workout:
    I think there's a popular misconception that your reasoning is flawed if it is tinged in any way with emotion or "bias". Everyone has biases, they may not be as apparent or readily expressed. It's true that emotions can 'overtake' common sense but I wonder if the issue really is that people don't recognize that.

    I also feel that functions are abstractions, it's useful to isolate them as Fe, Ti, etc. but in actuality I agree that we use combinations of them and more than that it's just harder to pinpoint exactly what we are experiencing and why.

    For myself, I feel that I can be pretty objective. I know when faced with a decision what makes more "sense" or fits certain goals and what I feel and why.

    I think that objectivity and self-awareness are MUCH more important than the ability to suddenly negate all emotion or become dispassionate. Some of us simply are not wired to be dispassionate nor do we have to be. Emotions do not necessarily poison logical thinking processes. (PS It's more useful to have Ne in this case...have your eye on the whole field so to speak)

    Emotional attachment can make certain decision making process less pleasant for us (ex: 'should I break up with my SO?') but in certain situations that's the way it goes.

    Having said all that - I feel like I'm pretty aware of my emotional currents and why I think and feel what I do.

    I think your question might be leaning towards more 'how do we change/or not feel X once we recognize it?' My only answer would be to try to logically understand it and then when you realize you have no 'need' for it in the moment just push it out of the way. They're skills and tactics though that are more easily said than done and for naturally emotional and/or sensitive people you just learn through trial and error and practice.

    To answer your earlier question about how to strengthen certain functions. Before I understood functions I was already trying to become more left brained and organized (battling that super 'P'!) by working on timeliness and structure. Taking quantitative courses after college. I also worked my Te by organizing events and groups. Si by becoming more detail orientated and better with keeping track of dates and times.
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux

    Johari/Nohari

  8. #8
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    Enfp
    Enneagram
    497 sx/so
    Socionics
    IEE Fi
    Posts
    14,657

    Default

    Ohh i wouldn't mind seeing this discussed for Te and Si either
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  9. #9

    Default

    I think a lot of the time, functions work in tandem with one another- usually an introverted judging function works with an extroverted perceiving function and an introverted perceiving function with an extroverted judging function. This is entirely my own opinion, however, and I have no formal justification for asserting this.

    The Ti in Ti/Ne is rather different from the Ti in Se/Ti. It's also different when in Ti/Ne or Ti/Se. When you want to develop your Ti, you ought to bear in mind that it would work differently when engaged with Ne, Se, or even Ni or Si.

    A Ti dominant might be comfortable using it in most contexts, but a Ti inferior should make the effort to try and use it under different circumstances so as to become an all-rounded individual.

    For example, I am Si-inferior. I try to develop my Si-Te to help me get things done by developing routines for work and fitness. I develop my Si-Fe by sitting down to evaluate my relationships with the people in my life. Neither comes naturally to me- in fact, in both scenarios, my dominant Ne/Ti is always there in the background, making connections and rationalizing everything... but it is a rewarding exercise (albeit a grueling one).
    Call me Visa, please!
    visakanv.com
    visaisahero.tumblr.com

  10. #10
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    Mine
    Enneagram
    1w9
    Posts
    1,770

    Default

    A drastically shortened version of a little theory I have on the subject for your consideration: F users tend to categorise things by splitting them into a dichotomy of good vs bad, T users with a dichotomy of correct vs incorrect.

    No one uses their dominant judging function 100% of the time, of course, but if you're not careful the others can be relegated to mere supporting roles. It's perfectly consistent for you as an ENFJ to be good at something like mathematics, because it allows you to put your secondary Ni to good use in solving problems. It's a fun exercise, which doesn't really engage the judging function too deeply, because you're not likely to care so deeply about the result that Feeling needs to come into play at all. You've probably won the first round of the battle already actually, by correctly identifying and being able to articulate a precise set of concerns that you know you need to address This is a pattern that I have noticed is very typical of ENFJs, most would deny it or seek to rationalise it away, which is why I feel you're already making progress.

    Let's think though... I suspect that your feeling judgement is tending to come into play when you can see an outcome that (you percieve as) good or bad. Ni is supporting this by leaping to conclusions, possibly without a firm grounding in fact. At this point, the fact checking capabilites offered by S and Ti are probably somewhat minimal, because Ni-Fe can argue a case all on its own with minimal reference to other functions except to make sure that some rational course is being followed which has some basis in reality; it hardly matters whether the conclusions being drawn are actually correct or the only possible ones, just that they support the initial Fe judgement. A vicious circle indeed...

    I would suggest it may help to try to let go of, or at least suspend, any initial good/bad formulations being formed by Fe in the first place. Just because it can be doesn't mean it must be, and certainly not that you should assume it is. Ti tries to form an internal mental model to test experiences against, and validate them or the model as correct or incorrect. So maybe ask yourself: what conceptual framework are you using, where are your experiences fitting in the "grand scheme" of things? What sense can you make of it all? Never mind whether it's right or wrong, how can you even decide this before you know where it fits with everything else? This in a nutshell is much of the Ti process at work, and if you can suspend the Fe judgement long enough to engage it it should start to work for you. It probably seems very counter-intuitive to you though: I think personally I'd recommend trying to engage the process on issues you don't care much about, maybe have never really thought about that much; if you have a strong opinion already it's likely to be very difficult to switch the F judgement off until you are used to doing so. It is your dominant process after all...

    Hope this makes some kind of sense!
    Look into my avatar. Look deep into my avatar...

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 9
    Last Post: 11-16-2009, 11:29 PM
  2. Tertiary and inferior functions when they're not childish or immature, just subtle
    By UnitOfPopulation in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 04-01-2009, 03:24 AM
  3. Developing Tertiary and Inferior Functions
    By Alpha Prime in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: 01-12-2009, 08:22 AM
  4. Tertiary and Inferior
    By Nocapszy in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 79
    Last Post: 11-16-2008, 05:03 PM
  5. Has anyone read How To Win Friends and Influence People-what are your thoughts?
    By ladypinkington in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 120
    Last Post: 10-29-2008, 03:37 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO