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  1. #41
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Depends on what you're discussing. Generally speaking, I think that it's way easier to ruffle an ENFJs feathers when you are rude and not politically correct etc and display a definite lack of interest in caring about others, whereas an ENFP will be way more easily offended if you attack who they are as a person and what they believe strongly in.

    Likewise an ENFP will try to udnerstand why the person is rude, or not politcally correct or not caring about others, whereas the ENFJ will be more likely to calmly address the personal critiscisms as they often value how others see them for personal growth purposes, especially if those criticisms include values that are held high in that community.

    I also personally think it might be easier to dismiss someone dissing your beliefs and who you are when you feel that you've got the entire community backing you up in what you believe and who you are, aka social protocol. For an ENFP it's a rocky road of individualism, causing you to sometimes self-doubt, making criticism that much more painful. At the same time the ENFP is way more likely to be curious as to why an individual is not believing in the same things they are (caring for others), or why they are rude, whereas an ENFJ will feel the urge to teach and defend the values held up by the community as important for the group.
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  2. #42
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur View Post
    Thick skin is not an NF goal unless you are jaded and even then you are focusing on something that isn't an inherent strength so you are wasting energy on it.
    yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malkavia View Post
    ENFPs tend to take things much more personally, HOWEVER, they also have to solve the problem. When someone criticizes them Ive noticed (at least with me and other ENFPs I know) they have to figure out why. ENFPs can become obsessed with fixing things if they have to do with people.
    Yes. I cant ignore the truth, and have to dig through it to resolve and evaluate.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Depends on what you're discussing. Generally speaking, I think that it's way easier to ruffle an ENFJs feathers when you are rude and not politically correct etc and display a definite lack of interest in caring about others, whereas an ENFP will be way more easily offended if you attack who they are as a person and what they believe strongly in.

    Likewise an ENFP will try to udnerstand why the person is rude, or not politcally correct or not caring about others, whereas the ENFJ will be more likely to calmly address the personal critiscisms as they often value how others see them for personal growth purposes, especially if those criticisms include values that are held high in that community.

    I also personally think it might be easier to dismiss someone dissing your beliefs and who you are when you feel that you've got the entire community backing you up in what you believe and who you are, aka social protocol. For an ENFP it's a rocky road of individualism, causing you to sometimes self-doubt, making criticism that much more painful. At the same time the ENFP is way more likely to be curious as to why an individual is not believing in the same things they are (caring for others), or why they are rude, whereas an ENFJ will feel the urge to teach and defend the values held up by the community as important for the group.
    Great points here.

  4. #44
    Senior Member chris1207's Avatar
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    As an ENFJ, when I'm confronted, I back off because I feel that I have insufficient information to win the argument. A lot of ENFJ rationale revolves around inductive logic via Ni<Se subconscious interpolation. Then once we've realized these underlying concepts we have tools for Fe to use in argument. For many arguments, NT will find that ENFJ rationale is quite shady even incorrect but when it comes to arguments about people and their interrelationships, it's iron-clad. It's like comparing a drawing that someone did from memory to one done by an idiot-savant. The detail and clarity of personal argumentation is impressive.

    Back to the main, if it's not a subject I really care about why should I continue to argue? Especially, when, if I care, I can gather my forces and Zerg you when we have our next opportunity to argue a point. My J certainly isn't going to let me remember every last detail of your argument.
    "... you think deeply about stuff [that] nobody cares about and hardly anybody can understand you." ~ Peguy talking about Ni users. So true.

  5. #45
    Senior Member chris1207's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    At the same time the ENFP is way more likely to be curious as to why an individual is not believing in the same things they are (caring for others), or why they are rude, whereas an ENFJ will feel the urge to teach and defend the values held up by the community as important for the group.
    Yeah, I agree with your entire post. It's like the other person is a moron and I have to correct them. If I care about you it should be effortless but if I don't it just seems like a big ole pile of work just landed on my desk. I will avoid the work if I deem the outcome to not be beneficial to me.
    "... you think deeply about stuff [that] nobody cares about and hardly anybody can understand you." ~ Peguy talking about Ni users. So true.

  6. #46
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Exit View Post
    Yes.. dropping my baggage of past hurts and not letting affect me is growth.. This is obtained by not being so sensitive to the things that once hurt me.. or as people call it, "growing" a thicker skin.. see? that phrase even uses the word grow..

    I get what you mean.. You mean to blanket all NF's by defining in your opinion, what our goals should be. As if we are one big collective incapable of free thought or deciding for ourselves what would serve us best.
    You could easily solve this by claiming something as opinion rather than fact.
    That is what I am going on about.
    You might think all ENFJs and ENFPs think exactly like you and that, therefore, qualifies you to make blanket statements about HOW they should behave.. But it doesn't really. If that were true, I would like all ENFs equally.. and I don't
    Life would be pretty boring if everything fit into neat little boxes.
    Just because one person with an anagram does one thing, doesn't mean ALL people with the same anagram would..

    You even tried to compare me to other INFPs that you know..

    Now take 2 INFPs .. one Christian and one Muslim and tell me they think and behave exactly alike.. or that their values are on par.. They will have similar passions about their beliefs and the comparison will end there.
    I doubt they will get along very well at all.. So similar and yet so different ..
    just like we all are.
    You need to look up some threads started by Victor, you might enjoy them.

    I'm not trying to box anyone in. We are talking about people who are defined by a personality model. It's not perfect, it's just a model. This conversation is tired and makes the INFPs that start them look loopy.

    Besides, are you really bringing this crap up in a thread about which enfx type is more ___? Shouldn't you be railing against the OP rather than me? It's my type he is boxing up. If I cry will that help? I like how you boxed in the muslim and christian at the end of your post, btw.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aurel View Post
    You assume that having a "thick skin" is growth. Dealing with things that hurt me in a productive way would be growth. Learning not to jump the gun when someone hurts me would be growth. A thicker skin is not, in my estimation, something to desire to have. One unique thing I see with NFs is that we let things "get" to us, that is a good thing as long as we learn how to deal with whatever "gets" to us.

    You may be missing that I spent many years trying to figure out the "final goal" of who I am "supposed" to be. I didn't do a very good job changing into anything else that people were appearing to value over ENFP traits and I'm learning that I need to work within my strengths and not try to accept someone else's definition of what I "should" be.
    I relate to this. I know that other people in my life at many points seemed to want me to be an ESFJ, and even in my late teens I knew better than that, though I would have some latent guilt that I didn't fit the mold.

    I put more pressure on myself in my late teens and twenties for not being an INTx. I put a limitation on myself that I should be more academic, more rational...I used to have interest in psychiatry and even detective work (and I still do, but only in terms of reading or watching movies about it) and would berate myself for being such a "weak" person...that I couldn't be some god-like INTJ who could handle working in a state hospital or for the FBI. I'm not shitting you, I used to really feel bad about myself for not being a person who could pursue these interests IRL, like there was something sick or damaged about me. Even after I grew out of that, I still wanted to be some sort of INTx academic, like I thought that I should go to grad school, and there was no other acceptable path in life.

    It's only fairly recently that I've started accepting me for who I am, and not just seeing myself as inherently childish or weak or broken. MBTI has actually helped me somewhat with that.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aurel View Post
    You need to look up some threads started by Victor, you might enjoy them.

    I'm not trying to box anyone in. We are talking about people who are defined by a personality model. It's not perfect, it's just a model. This conversation is tired and makes the INFPs that start them look loopy.

    Besides, are you really bringing this crap up in a thread about which enfx type is more ___? Shouldn't you be railing against the OP rather than me? It's my type he is boxing up. If I cry will that help? I like how you boxed in the muslim and christian at the end of your post, btw.
    YAK YAK YAK YAK!!!

    If this bores you so much then please stop talking about it.
    own what you said .. and move along!!

    Victor at least stands by what he says and doesn't tear his leg muscles trying to back pedal his way out of it.

  9. #49
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    Are you serious or are you an "INFP troll"?

  10. #50
    Senior Member Nonsensical's Avatar
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    I kind of get the impression that ENFJs would go down first because of their stronger reliance upon social acceptance. ENFPs can still function without it. Maybe it has something to do with Fe vs. Fi.
    Is it that by its indefiniteness it shadows forth the heartless voids and immensities of the universe, and thus stabs us from behind with the thought of annihilation, when beholding the white depths of the milky way?

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