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  1. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    .


    Nevermind that its not perfect, the sample is too small and vaguely defined to the point of being preposterous. The subject-matter of speculative socio-typology that is commonly discussed here hardly merits contemplation of a moment's worth.
    Then go away.

  2. #112
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    .

    Unless you were able to observe thousands of people from different social backgrounds of whose type you were certain, you didn't observe enough people.
    What amount of people is the proper amount?

  3. #113
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Yes, I think Te walls can give ENFPs the illusion of having thicker skin. I think we can even seen meaner than ENFJs because they lead with Fe. Believe it or not, there are people in this world who mistakenly think I'm some hard-ass, untouchable bitch. I've even fooled my own sister once or twice.

    But the truth is I think ENFPs have much thinner skin, and that's why we sometimes overcompensate. All of my hard-assery is to protect my little kitty heart. To me, ENFPs seem much more reactive, and take things much more personally.
    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Then go away.

    Was that comment in defense of your little kitty heart?

  4. #114
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    Was that comment in defense of your little kitty heart?
    Says INFP.

  5. #115
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I think people with dom/aux Fe can be offended much more easily in terms of subject matter. Being "offended" usually has something to do with decency and standards...I can honestly tell you as an ENFP there really is very little which offends me in terms of being "politically incorrect" and irreverent. I think we're less likely to be "offended" by what is strange, unusual, risque, or dark.

    On the other hand, we're more easily "hurt" because we take certain things personally and to heart.
    Can you give me some examples of what you consider "strange, unusual, risque, or dark" because I'd like to know if I'd start clutching my proverbial pearls at the same things.

    Most definitely about the decency and standards part. I hate seeing inequalities and people treating each other like trash. For example, at my job there's a deep cleavage between those with professional and post-bacc degrees and a lot of intellectual egos running around. The reason why these attitudes and behaviors concern me is because how the culture of superiority/inferiority affects professional development and opportunities for professional growth and also their views of people subordinate to them.

    Another example of when I got offended (I wrote about this somewhere) is about two years ago when I was at a house party one of the other partygoers put the lid of a wicker laundry basket on his head and then got up in the face of one of my Asian friends saying "Ching, chong, chang ching ching!" That's one bit of political incorrectness I DO NOT stand for and me and several other people reamed him his ass and he sat in the corner for the rest of the night nursing his beer and some buffalo wings.

    This happens on both the macro and micro scales, and I do my part where I can. I do feel compelled to speak up and do something when these types of offenses occur.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
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  6. #116
    Lungs & Lips Locked Unkindloving's Avatar
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    I'm not sure if it only pertains to me (other ENFJs, feel free to chime in), but i am not at all for political correctness, do not get insulted easily (or much at all), and can be extremely abrasive.

    It may be a 4w5 contribution or a situational thing.

    I'm a thin-skinned little bitch if there's a problem between myself and someone i genuinely care about, but apart from that i'm quite solid.
    Where do the other ENFs feel their subjective weak spots are?
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  7. #117
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    What amount of people is the proper amount?
    I would have to say at least several thousands per type. Five thousand at least. We'd also have to make sure that all of our subjects are from a wide of range of different cultural or socio-economical backgrounds, otherwise we can't generalize our findings for the entire temperament.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  8. #118
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    I would have to say at least several thousands per type. Five thousand at least. We'd also have to make sure that all of our subjects are from a wide of range of different cultural or socio-economical backgrounds, otherwise we can't generalize our findings for the entire temperament.
    Ti Ti Ti Ti Ti

    (hehehehe, I am sooooo bad....I promise I'll read the booookkkk)

    SW you should actually start a whole thread about this-it is a worthwhile topic. ENFs have such an intuitive grasp on human behavior that we can-well-as bad as this sounds-skip the extraordinary data collection step. But we arent building Ti rules either, just building massively messy Fi/Fe models of behavior-even then mostly not consciously. We mold our findings to the collective group we see and interact with most often and it actually works really well-doesnt mean it is Ti pretty in anyway at all-but highly functional.

    I do question-can you ever really simplify the way Fe/Fi work into Ti terms? I dunno...Just a question.

    brooklyn!!!

  9. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unkindloving View Post
    I'm not sure if it only pertains to me (other ENFJs, feel free to chime in), but i am not at all for political correctness, do not get insulted easily (or much at all), and can be extremely abrasive.

    It may be a 4w5 contribution or a situational thing.

    I'm a thin-skinned little bitch if there's a problem between myself and someone i genuinely care about, but apart from that i'm quite solid.
    Where do the other ENFs feel their subjective weak spots are?
    I can really relate to your whole post!

    If you give me an unfair judgement....that really PISSES me off. The people that try to CHANGE me and correct my behavior and ways with "you should..."s, get under my skin. Ironically, this seems to come a lot from my fellow Fe brethren, the ESFJs.

  10. #120
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I consider 'offend' and 'hurt' to be synonyms, both literally and emotionally. At the very least, offense is the fist step towards hurt. Offense is the perception, hurt is the reaction. I'm not quite sure how you can be hurt without being offended in some way, although I can understand being offended without being hurt. For example, if someone makes a disparaging racial comment I can be offended, but I'm not personally hurt because the comment doesn't necessarily apply to me. If someone does or says something personally hurtful to me, I can be both offended and hurt, but I'm rarely hurt without being offended. That particular combination is intertwined.
    This is weird for me Pro. For anything offensive I dont feel hurt-at all. But I feel Te kick in very strongly to right the wrong. It doesnt hurt my feelings or engage Fi at all. Offense is the perception, slight anger and/or direct action is the reaction.


    Check this out.

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ml#post1109759

    Yeah I might have had PMS a bit yesterday... (Sorry SW...) SWs comment prompted an immediate WTF did you just say response? It personally offended me, silly though it seems. But no hurt at all. I plopped down my comment, internally rolled my eyes, and then went meh, whatever and promptly forgot the whole thing. The comment was representative of a very interesting INTJ-ENTP dynamic, was noted as such mentally and then dismissed in annoyance.

    In a larger scale? In defense of others, no pain, no hurt, only a winding of the Te dynamo to focus the emo energy (anger?) into a defense solution to correct the situation. No emo needs to be present, once the gears click into place, after an offense. Its more like my internal dragon sits up, takes notice, and then constructs a concerted, crystalline, response.

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    RE the ENTP thing: How hurtful can what some stranger on the internet says about you possibly be? They know nothing about your personally or individually so how do you allow yourself to be hurt in that way? Or maybe you did put yourself out there personally or individually, whereas I would not chum the water with my emotions like that so there's less of a chance for offense or hurt or whatever it is. Or there was an attack on an image, which some felt it was necessary to defend. ?
    So hurt-
    Remember I am a total nutcase and am a weird enfp. I am growing backwards from the direction of the other enfps-so its an insightful if warped perspective. If you manage to emotionally hurt me, I appear to have a complete emotional breakdown. Go team Ne!

    Hurt can only happen a few ways. Given the Te walls of steel, I have to have made an emotional overture, a sincere offer to carry you emotionally as part of myself for you to hurt me. (Maybe other enfps do this much more readily so are more easily hurt?) I would go far as to suggest there may be some weird internalization of the other person-making them part of our internal self definition-Fi ruleset? (Fucking crazy I know).

    Ways to profoundly hurt me:
    1. Reject that emotional offering-ie my Fi attempt to connect with you. It is like losing a limb. This is where my IRL entps will hurt me, as they will Fe-withdraw if I get emo-thus it feels like rejection of my Fi. I offered my emotions-you rejected them. (ENFPs seem to sometimes carry a sense they are internally flawed-I think it has to do with the risk of these emotions/connections not being acceptable to others.)

    2. Attack the authenticity of the emotional offering. I HAVE NO IDEA why this hurts so much. To have me show you emotions openly, and then have the truth of those emotions questioned-is agony. I dont know why. To ever imply the emotional offering is manipulative. Agony. To imply I would use it as a tool. Agony. I dont understand where this response comes from at all. It is so visceral, so guttural. So ingrained. Why is it okay for an ENFJ or INFJ to say they use others emotions to manipulate but if an ENFP says anything like that it seems so WRONG. There is some deep shit wrapped up in the *authenticity* of Fi. This is what the ENTPs set off in the threads-they question the sincerity, authenticity, manipulative goals. When they call Fi selfish0they are indirectly saying it is insincere and is not actually authentic in its emotional offering? You will see hurt-Te funneled bitchslap anger response almost instinctually.

    I have had a few pokes of this sort form the ENTPs, but since I mostly live in Te, I quell the innate emotional response, step back and try and gather more data about why they are perceiving what they perceive. But the other enfps-they were already interacting openly via Fi, they lack my Te walls-thus I dont think they have that same option. Instead you see instinctual defense reactions.

    In the same light-using NeTe together allows me to dissect people and see patterns most people dont. I can use this information strategically. Yet if I try and do so I am left feeling *dirty*. It feels very wrong to even understand these patterns, let alone use them. I am still thinking through this.

    Lot of stuff to figure out here though, so this is all very fuzzy still. Very, very weird.

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    And once again, I'm still baffled by the fixation on hurt and pain. What if you want to connect to a person who for the most part has a clean bill of psychological and emotional health? What if they're not bleeding pain and anguish all over the place? Certainly if you can be physically healthy, you can be emotionally healthy. What do you do with people like that?
    I personally feel the happiness of others very strongly-not just pain. I will almost always sacrifice for myself in order to make others happier. Another perspective-check out the enfp responses on the jeolousy thread. We all kinda say the same thing. Let that shit go and be happy for the other person. Genuinely happy. Our only other option is to carry anger and pain, thus activating the Te call to action, which will result in cycles of anger-hurting others-guilt-pain. We seem to know in advance, somewhat instinctually, how unproductive that is. So instead I choose to feel the happiness of the other and be content in that peace and beauty. But it has to be real, honest, authentic happiness which totally wipes out the negativity, hurt and anger. I really have to be happy for them to feel happy myself. Then it is real.

    (Can I get an emoticon for crazy?)

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