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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    But using Te walls I can solve problems every effectively and never get hurt. I quell any emotions and just resolve issues. It is very logical and detached and effective.

    For an enfp I think growing these Te walls is the way we develop a thick skin-although I'd love to hear alternative suggestions as well because maybe there are other ways??
    Yes, I think Te walls can give ENFPs the illusion of having thicker skin. I think we can even seen meaner than ENFJs because they lead with Fe. Believe it or not, there are people in this world who mistakenly think I'm some hard-ass, untouchable bitch. I've even fooled my own sister once or twice.

    But the truth is I think ENFPs have much thinner skin, and that's why we sometimes overcompensate. All of my hard-assery is to protect my little kitty heart. To me, ENFPs seem much more reactive, and take things much more personally.

  2. #102
    Uniqueorn William K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    Maybe growing Fi rulesets allows us to emotionally protect ourselves more effectively? We learn it is okay not to forgive, it is okay to hurt others sometimes? I dunno...so confused on this issue. It defies logic.
    I think it's more like refining your values and building boundaries so that you are sensitive to less things. The smaller the number of things that make up your Fi core, the easier it is to ignore the perceived slights/offense that others do to you and that you do to others.
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  3. #103
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post


    Rather than acid reflux, ENFPs may suffer from emo-reflux. Bluuurgghhhhhhhh! (can I take prilosec for this?)
    :yim_rolling_on_the_ Best unicorn picture ever!

  4. #104
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Offense will come in life, that's a guarantee along with death and taxes.

    I don't think being thicker-skinned has to mean being impervious, hardened, or insensitive. For me it's about knowing which battles to fight and what hills I'm willing to die on.

    I more or less view being thick-skinned as analogous to building your immune system. You want to be protected enough so that dangerous viruses and pathogens don't kill you, but good bacteria and probiotic thingys are permeable and welcome.

    Also, a lot of it is contextual as has been mentioned several times in the thread...what fairly and reasonably sets you off (unjust and incorrect character assaults), what you just brush off as hateration (unfounded gossip that has no bearing on anything), and constructive criticism that should be heeded (weaknesses and areas of improvement).
    I guess..I dont think of think skin protecting me from "offensive" things. I think of it as protecting me from "hurtful" things. When you see the enfps all get in a tizzy at the entps-the entps have pushed a "hurt" button not an "offense" button. It hurts Fi, and we lash back with Te funneled emotion if we get poked hard enough. (Not Te mind you, but Te used to structure the painful emotions into a shield to protect ourselves. Why does it hurt? They directly challenge the authenticity of the emotional responses I think. So much of our emo "reactivity" and infantality borders on subconscious, innate responses I am thinking.)

    Maybe that's kinda been said in the thread already? It's kinda hard to "offend" an enfp. But we are sensitive to hurt.

    What do you feel if you find something offensive/hurtful, but recognize it isnt a battle worth fighting? How do you redirect the emotions internally?

  5. #105
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by William K View Post
    I think it's more like refining your values and building boundaries so that you are sensitive to less things. The smaller the number of things that make up your Fi core, the easier it is to ignore the perceived slights/offense that others do to you and that you do to others.
    William can you give an example of this? I would think your Fi core would be huge?

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    I guess..I dont think of think skin protecting me from "offensive" things. I think of it as protecting me from "hurtful" things. When you see the enfps all get in a tizzy at the entps-the entps have pushed a "hurt" button not an "offense" button. It hurts Fi, and we lash back with Te funneled emotion if we get poked hard enough. (Not Te mind you, but Te used to structure the painful emotions into a shield to protect ourselves. Why does it hurt? They directly challenge the authenticity of the emotional responses I think. So much of our emo "reactivity" and infantality borders on subconscious, innate responses I am thinking.)

    Maybe that's kinda been said in the thread already? It's kinda hard to "offend" an enfp. But we are sensitive to hurt.
    THIS

  7. #107
    Uniqueorn William K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    William can you give an example of this? I would think your Fi core would be huge?
    As I have gotten older, it has gotten more tiring to get worked up over some things The ruleset/heuristics might get bigger but I think I'm less sensitive to things now than I was and I let a lot of things slide, especially in on-line interactions. The challenge is finding out what is really important to you to defend and what is not. As proteanmix said, it's figuring out which battle to fight.

    It's like when someone does something that bugs or hurts you, you try to figure out what exactly is the 'value' button that he is pushing and how high of a priority that value is. And can that person actually harm you and your value in any way by his actions/words?

    I used to be hate speaking in public because I was afraid of the criticisms from the audience. I still feel uncomfortable and get flustered if someone speaks up against whatever I am presenting, but I know that most of the time it is my idea and not me personally that he is attacking. And even if he is really heckling me because he thinks I'm an idiot? If you are confident in what you presented and it's important to you, then stand your ground. Else, learn from the experience and forget about the hurt. It's not the end of the world to look foolish once in a while
    4w5, Fi>Ne>Ti>Si>Ni>Fe>Te>Se, sp > so > sx

    appreciates being appreciated, conflicted over conflicts, afraid of being afraid, bad at being bad, predictably unpredictable, consistently inconsistent, remarkably unremarkable...

    I may not agree with what you are feeling, but I will defend to death your right to have a good cry over it

    The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. ~ Bertrand Russell

  8. #108
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    I guess..I dont think of think skin protecting me from "offensive" things. I think of it as protecting me from "hurtful" things. When you see the enfps all get in a tizzy at the entps-the entps have pushed a "hurt" button not an "offense" button. It hurts Fi, and we lash back with Te funneled emotion if we get poked hard enough. (Not Te mind you, but Te used to structure the painful emotions into a shield to protect ourselves. Why does it hurt? They directly challenge the authenticity of the emotional responses I think. So much of our emo "reactivity" and infantality borders on subconscious, innate responses I am thinking.)

    Maybe that's kinda been said in the thread already? It's kinda hard to "offend" an enfp. But we are sensitive to hurt.
    I consider 'offend' and 'hurt' to be synonyms, both literally and emotionally. At the very least, offense is the fist step towards hurt. Offense is the perception, hurt is the reaction. I'm not quite sure how you can be hurt without being offended in some way, although I can understand being offended without being hurt. For example, if someone makes a disparaging racial comment I can be offended, but I'm not personally hurt because the comment doesn't necessarily apply to me. If someone does or says something personally hurtful to me, I can be both offended and hurt, but I'm rarely hurt without being offended. That particular combination is intertwined.

    RE the ENTP thing: How hurtful can what some stranger on the internet says about you possibly be? They know nothing about your personally or individually so how do you allow yourself to be hurt in that way? Or maybe you did put yourself out there personally or individually, whereas I would not chum the water with my emotions like that so there's less of a chance for offense or hurt or whatever it is. Or there was an attack on an image, which some felt it was necessary to defend.

    And once again, I'm still baffled by the fixation on hurt and pain. What if you want to connect to a person who for the most part has a clean bill of psychological and emotional health? What if they're not bleeding pain and anguish all over the place? Certainly if you can be physically healthy, you can be emotionally healthy. What do you do with people like that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    What do you feel if you find something offensive/hurtful, but recognize it isnt a battle worth fighting? How do you redirect the emotions internally?
    These are questions and responses that go through my mind...things that I'm still learning.
    • Control: Am I going to let this manhandle and maul me like this? Don't give up my personal agency towards, don't be at the mercy of the emotions of others or my inner Ms. Hyde.
    • Significance: Why is this important? What's my stake and agenda?
    • Scale: Does this go beyond me? Is it even about me?
    • Focus: What can I realistically do to make it better?
    • Cleanse: What rejuvenates and revives me?
    • Rebuild: What other areas can I strengthen and how do I mitigate against any future damage? (this is my Jay talking!)


    Easier said than done of course, but even slowing down enough to think all that can create enough distance between me and the cause. This process helps me and the more I do it, the more I find a certain level of peace internally. Some situations I can do it in 10 minutes, others may take months or years to work through this. I can tell you right now, focusing on anger, hurt, offense, frustration, and pain only makes things worse. That shit feeds upon itself, kinda like an Ouroboros.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
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  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I consider 'offend' and 'hurt' to be synonyms, both literally and emotionally. At the very least, offense is the fist step towards hurt. Offense is the perception, hurt is the reaction. I'm not quite sure how you can be hurt without being offended in some way, although I can understand being offended without being hurt.
    I think people with dom/aux Fe can be offended much more easily in terms of subject matter. Being "offended" usually has something to do with decency and standards...I can honestly tell you as an ENFP there really is very little which offends me in terms of being "politically incorrect" and irreverent. I think we're less likely to be "offended" by what is strange, unusual, risque, or dark.

    On the other hand, we're more easily "hurt" because we take certain things personally and to heart.

  10. #110
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Then I think about what opportunities do I have to observe enough people AND ALSO know their MBTI type so that I can start connecting behaviors and tendencies with types. .
    Unless you were able to observe thousands of people from different social backgrounds of whose type you were certain, you didn't observe enough people.

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    It's not perfect of course and you just gave a very viable reason why it isn't. .
    Nevermind that its not perfect, the sample is too small and vaguely defined to the point of being preposterous. The subject-matter of speculative socio-typology that is commonly discussed here hardly merits contemplation of a moment's worth. This will change for the better only if we conduct carefully controlled studies in sociology.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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