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Thread: Need to Fi

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    I knock the church not on what it preaches, but the effect it creates in the way it preaches. Its very essence of how it preaches goes against what it preaches, but the only reason I have nothing against it is because of the values it preaches. To see what I mean by the methods it uses look at cults that use church like practices. This Fi you speak of is what keeps the churches values appropriate to its mass and is like a self check of powers.
    Yes, I agree. But without Fe, I kind of doubt there'd be a church to begin with. If you want to have a religion, you need both.

    Or look it like this:

    The Civil War, there were two major issues- the universal 'wrong' of slavery coupled with the disintegration of the Union. Some Fi users (my guess is) would say, 'who gives a shit about the union? It's just some meaningless construct. What matters is we rid the world of slavery, because it is wrong, and that is the most important thing." But a Fe user (my guess is) would say, "There is value to the Union, to a community of persons. It is vital that we don't sever this permanently. We need to find a solution which is amenable to both sides." But both of these are good, important things. And yes, you do need both.

    As far as the OP goes, I'd imagine trying to tap into Fi isn't going to produce the healthiest use of the function. I would think it would be best to rely on his Ni+Fe in order to pay attention to what really matters to him. For example, I don't view my marriage as important due to the social constructs of it; I view it as important because it makes me happy, it makes my husband happy, it makes my kids happy, and it would be wrong of me to hurt them, or to hurt myself. I want to be a good person of integrity, so I stay true to it. A Fe user may view it differently, however. (I don't really know. That's why I say 'may'.) But any way, both of us is going to see the marriage as a good thing of value.

    But as far as the latest Church scandal goes, I would say the cover-up of the sexual abuse was Fe gone awry- "protect the institution at all costs", while the Fi would say, "This is a house of cards. Your desire to protect this is killing it." I'm not saying there aren't situations of Fi gone awry, cause there sure are, I'm just using this as an example of the sort Poki, I imagine, is thinking.

    EDIT: Actually, Fi gone awry, in the case of the church, I would think would be the cultural shift toward Fi in the sixties of moral relativism- 'do your own thing' made people begin to see the lack of importance of tradition/ a church community. Vatican II (making the church more 'modern') caused it to lose a lot of it's significance. I think the Fi desire to make it more personal was a worthy goal, but it can lead to people thinking, 'Eh, why do I need this? I can be with God alone anywhere!' (As a Fi user, not saying I disagree with this- cause I stopped going to church years ago for this very reason, not to mention being guided by own internal values- but not exactly healthy as far as survival of an institution goes.)

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    I understand that others are always loved before you, though while I think that's an Fi rule, it's your Fi-rule, not a general one. Fi is your attitude and choices and priorities: the explicit priorities, etc., are different from one person to the next.
    With this said and Orobas explanation of how she uses Fi. You cant force that understanding or attitude no matter how stern, how forceful you try to be. It has to come through ones own processing and perception else you are speaking to their Te and making an external decision of how they are supposed to feel. This Te is needed to get past situations quickly, but it lacks that precision and doesnt clear up the muddled Fi that is in the middle of processing and feeling it out.

    This is the struggle I see as Te becomes impatient with Fi. Both internally and across people.
    Im out, its been fun

  3. #73
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    I don't think that's attributable to function type. I do that too, as do many others, I'm sure.
    sorry my bad AA, I meant it is one of my specific Fi rules-not by any means a general Fi thing at all. I find Fe to be amazingly beautiful in how it loves, so no limitations implied at all-just muddled wording. (Hey I smell Ti round these parts.......Hmmmmmm)

  4. #74
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    sorry my bad AA, I meant it is one of my specific Fi rules-not by any means a general Fi thing at all. I find Fe to be amazingly beautiful in how it loves, so no limitations implied at all-just muddled wording. (Hey I smell Ti round these parts.......Hmmmmmm)
    Don't be so hard on yourself. You're awesome!


    edit: perhaps so. Maybe i use N/F/T in every attitude all the time!!

    edit2: Te: categorizing neatly. labeling properly. attributing appropriately
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  5. #75
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    so can I ask you guys a question about Fi?

    I can do the emotional mirroring innately-very strongly actually with animals or people, accutely painfully so.
    I place myself in other people's shoes all the time.
    But in the past I did not typically use Fi to make decisions-I use Te to logically find the correct path.
    What is this mirroring people speak of? I hear ENFPs mention this more.
    Only on a few occasions has my empathy been engaged unwillingly. I don't usually find empathizing to be painful..."mesmerized" might be a better word for me. There's a feeling of removal in order to get the "healing" done (someone has to stay calm), but there's also a recognition of & identification with the emotion.

    When I hear Fi people speak of this "mirroring", it makes me think they have not developed boundaries, or I am too detached at times. I can be totally oblivious to other people's emotions if I feel like it. Only occasionally do I feel a sting of sadness at things I cannot help (or which are not directly related to my life), but it's easy for me to keep my original mood intact and move on with my day.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  6. #76
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    What is this mirroring people speak of? I hear ENFPs mention this more.
    Only on a few occasions has my empathy been engaged unwillingly. I don't usually find empathizing to be painful..."mesmerized" might be a better word for me. There's a feeling of removal in order to get the "healing" done (someone has to stay calm), but there's also a recognition of & identification with the emotion.

    When I hear Fi people speak of this "mirroring", it makes me think they have not developed boundaries, or I am too detached at times. I can be totally oblivious to other people's emotions if I feel like it. Only occasionally do I feel a sting of sadness at things I cannot help (or which are not directly related to my life), but it's easy for me to keep my original mood intact and move on with my day.
    Do you think this is because you are actually really skilled at using Fi-so you have learned to be very selective about who you choose to engage with emotionally? (In contrast my Fi is primitive at best) This came up in the empathy thread and several other places. Ne just funnels-and potentially even amplifies-what pain I "perceive" others to be in. It can cause me a lot of stress. (Just me though, not sure how other enfps feel this)

    EDIT-Just to clarify empathy is such a massive broad concept so in no way claiming it for Fi. I actually saw it mentioned as an aspect of Fe in the MBTI book.

  7. #77
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    Do you think this is because you are actually really skilled at using Fi-so you have learned to be very selective about who you choose to engage with emotionally? (In contrast my Fi is primitive at best) This came up in the empathy thread and several other places. Ne just funnels-and potentially even amplifies-what pain I "perceive" others to be in. It can cause me a lot of stress. (Just me though, not sure how other enfps feel this)

    EDIT-Just to clarify empathy is such a massive broad concept so in no way claiming it for Fi. I actually saw it mentioned as an aspect of Fe in the MBTI book.
    I don't know....that's why I brought it up .
    I think functions will work differently in different positions though (ie. auxiliary vs. dominant). It could be an I/E factor - I am just naturally more in-tune with my own thoughts than anything external.

    In some ways, I think my ability to detach rather easily can be negative. I may lose perspective on my own emotion and become self-absorbed in my own problems. They loom large with nothing to compare them to.
    When I have moments of empathizing, I do feel rather calm because I am not focused on me. I think there is a balancing and boundaries needed when it comes to how much you empathize & how much you detach. Too much one way or the other is not good.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  8. #78
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I don't know....that's why I brought it up .
    I think functions will work differently in different positions though (ie. auxiliary vs. dominant). It could be an I/E factor - I am just naturally more in-tune with my own thoughts than anything external.

    In some ways, I think my ability to detach rather easily can be negative. I may lose perspective on my own emotion and become self-absorbed in my own problems. They loom large with nothing to compare them to.
    When I have moments of empathizing, I do feel rather calm because I am not focused on me. I think there is a balancing and boundaries needed when it comes to how much you empathize & how much you detach. Too much one way or the other is not good.
    I don't know how you feel about this, but I read in my Hartzler functions book, that Fi as an advanced function can feel the emotions of others by running them through their own emotional data banks. I'll quote:

    At high levels of discrimination, the Conscience has the bewitching ability to accurately assess other people's emotional states by reading his own internal reactions. The person then tends to provide benevolent attention and care for the person who really needs it.
    emphasis mine.

    What do you think? Do you think this is true?
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    ~Torah observant, Christ inspired~
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    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  9. #79
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    I don't know how you feel about this, but I read in my Hartzler functions book, that Fi as an advanced function can feel the emotions of others by running them through their own emotional data banks. I'll quote:

    At high levels of discrimination, the Conscience has the bewitching ability to accurately assess other people's emotional states by reading his own internal reactions. The person then tends to provide benevolent attention and care for the person who really needs it.
    emphasis mine.

    What do you think? Do you think this is true?
    I notice the quote uses the word "assess". To me, that's accurate. I identify the emotion, but I may not feel that emotion in the moment. There is a recognition of something I know or have known, and I can use that to extrapolate what the other person may be feeling. I say "extrapolate" because INFPs often report being able to accurately grasp that which they have not directly experienced.

    I have helped people clarify how they feel by doing this also. I just offer suggestions and the person will verify that I hit the nail on the head. They sometimes get excited when this happens because they needed that clarification much more than any advice.

    If I were to become emotional with them, then I'd lose that clarity though. When that happens (because it does sometimes), then I may egg on their emotion instead of helping them deal with it, which usually is not positive.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I notice the quote uses the word "assess". To me, that's accurate. I identify the emotion, but I may not feel that emotion in the moment. There is a recognition of something I know or have known, and I can use that to extrapolate what the other person may be feeling. I say "extrapolate" because INFPs often report being able to accurately grasp that which they have not directly experienced.

    I have helped people clarify how they feel by doing this also. I just offer suggestions and the person will verify that I hit the nail on the head. They sometimes get excited when this happens because they needed that clarification much more than any advice.

    If I were to become emotional with them, then I'd lose that clarity though. When that happens (because it does sometimes), then I may egg on their emotion instead of helping them deal with it, which usually is not positive.
    I do feel that emotion inside of me in the moment. In the way AA described. But I dont know why and sometimes it is an extremely fuzzy emotion that I cant really pinpoint. My wife can actually tell when I do this, she can sense that harmonization of emotions. She can tell when I drop to the same level she drops to. She knows I really care about her when I do this.

    I dont understand feelings enough to bring it to your extrapolation.
    Im out, its been fun

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