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Thread: Need to Fi

  1. #61
    Senior Member TopherRed's Avatar
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    Aw, but my Ni and Se never argue with each other internally, what gives?
    Love is the point.

  2. #62
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    For me its not a rule, but a current understanding based on the pieces. I have always seen Fi as an understanding. To bring this to logic, even if I make a decision it is layered with all these other situations that could logically change things, but I stick with my current understanding and allow these other layers to just kinda float around as possibilities so its not really a hard set rule. This to me is my openness or fuzziness in regards to Ti. Each layer or possibility has hard set logic but I can switch and move between these layers. Its nothing hard set as a rule and more data can sway it if it fits into the puzzle at anytime. I try to control this data so its not so one sided though. This is how I keep my openness.
    yeah I always thought of Ti/Fi as being very similiar oddly.

    Fi mirrors pain or happiness
    Ti mirrors logical paths/ideas???

    Both form internal rule sets.
    Ti is well suited for pure logic-rulesets requiring precision-and poorly suited to resolve complex human problems??
    Fi likely is not ideal for pure logic but is good at very complex human problems-very fuzzy complex rules sets.

    Both are learned via trial and error? So i have to feel my way through the Fi problem, to actually build Fi rules? A Ti user would need to think through logic problems??? And once built it can be hard to change them as I would need to re-feel a similiar situation and feel a different result while you would need to think through new logical rules???

    (Does any of this sound right my favorite Ti dom?) I am blathering today.

  3. #63
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzcrossed View Post
    Aw, but my Ni and Se never argue with each other internally, what gives?
    Dont worry-I am a little weird... (meaning kinda crazy but in a cute harmless sort of random way unless you corner me and I verbally incinerate you )

    i have actually asked other enfps about this dual judging thing and they dont all see it but some entps do see Ti and Fe sort of argue over what to do. I dunno about other types at all....

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzcrossed View Post
    Aw, but my Ni and Se never argue with each other internally, what gives?
    Me and my wifes Ti and Fe argue alot. Or is it her FeSe and my TiNi...I think thats it. She gets into external perception and principle and I get into workable solution and possible ways to move forward
    Im out, its been fun

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    yeah I always thought of Ti/Fi as being very similiar oddly.

    Fi mirrors pain or happiness
    Ti mirrors logical paths/ideas???

    Both form internal rule sets.
    Ti is well suited for pure logic-rulesets requiring precision-and poorly suited to resolve complex human problems??
    Fi likely is not ideal for pure logic but is good at very complex human problems-very fuzzy complex rules sets.

    Both are learned via trial and error? So i have to feel my way through the Fi problem, to actually build Fi rules? A Ti user would need to think through logic problems??? And once built it can be hard to change them as I would need to re-feel a similiar situation and feel a different result while you would need to think through new logical rules???

    (Does any of this sound right my favorite Ti dom?) I am blathering today.
    You saying I cant handle complex human problems Yes solving problems with current data on hand is not my strong point unless I have access to immense amounts of data(google is my friend) so I tend to proceed down paths so that more data can be obtained, analyzed and create these new rule sets that become more and more precise. I sit in Ti alot so they are constantly changing as new data comes in.
    Im out, its been fun

  6. #66
    brainheart
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    I am only every truly lucidly emotional when I am in the presence of other people usually.
    Wow, that is so wild. I am only truly emotional when I am by myself. Otherwise, I tend to hide it. I mean, sometimes, it creeps out, but it's very awkward, not the socially acceptable way.

    I find this fascinating...

    But as others say about Fi, it's a judging function- it's something in your gut that says 'this is right' or 'this is wrong'. It can be very powerful. It may seem irrational, like- 'I can't explain why this is wrong to me, it just is'- but deep down, it's intensely rational, as in- 'Life must be valued. If life is not valued, the world will turn to ruin, for rampant disrespect/disregard for life in all its forms is unsustainable. Therefore, I will not step on this insect, I will not buy fur, I will smile at this panhandler no one else will look at.'

    Fi is about universal values vs the values of an individual society. It's just rooted in internal self-worth. That's why some see it as selfish. But healthy Fi is about as unselfish as you can get, because you are always considering the cause and effect of your thoughts and actions and whether they are 'true'. It just looks different than Fe. Think St. Francis of Assisi (Fi) vs uh, I don't know... some Fe user saint...

    Sorry to color this with my Catholic education, but The Fi-user would stand up against the errors of the church, where the church has strayed from the universal values, while the Fe-user would be a 'defender of the faith', I would think... Neither is more or less noble, it just prioritizes different things.

    In my opinion, anyway...

    Why do you need to develop Fi, anyway? You've got Fe... let it do its work, use it with your Ni to understand yourself and what matters to you.

  7. #67
    A passer by yvonne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    You know-it sort of looks that way I guess-that I am nice. But I dont establish deep emo connections typically so the hurts I inflict are typically unintentional or not of deep significance. I think if I attached more deeply, I would have hurt more people in life.
    hurt is a part of life. you haven't killed anyone, have you? it's not that bad. think of yourself in that situation, if you were them, would you forgive you?

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    Wow, that is so wild. I am only truly emotional when I am by myself. Otherwise, I tend to hide it. I mean, sometimes, it creeps out, but it's very awkward, not the socially acceptable way.

    I find this fascinating...

    But as others say about Fi, it's a judging function- it's something in your gut that says 'this is right' or 'this is wrong'. It can be very powerful. It may seem irrational, like- 'I can't explain why this is wrong to me, it just is'- but deep down, it's intensely rational, as in- 'Life must be valued. If life is not valued, the world will turn to ruin, for rampant disrespect/disregard for life in all its forms is unsustainable. Therefore, I will not step on this insect, I will not buy fur, I will smile at this panhandler no one else will look at.'

    Fi is about universal values vs the values of an individual society. It's just rooted in internal self-worth. That's why some see it as selfish. But healthy Fi is about as unselfish as you can get, because you are always considering the cause and effect of your thoughts and actions and whether they are 'true'. It just looks different than Fe. Think St. Francis of Assisi (Fi) vs uh, I don't know... some Fe user saint...

    Sorry to color this with my Catholic education, but The Fi-user would stand up against the errors of the church, where the church has strayed from the universal values, while the Fe-user would be a 'defender of the faith', I would think... Neither is more or less noble, it just prioritizes different things.

    In my opinion, anyway...

    Why do you need to develop Fi, anyway? You've got Fe... let it do its work, use it with your Ni to understand yourself and what matters to you.
    I knock the church not on what it preaches, but the effect it creates in the way it preaches. Its very essence of how it preaches goes against what it preaches, but the only reason I have nothing against it is because of the values it preaches. To see what I mean by the methods it uses look at cults that use church like practices. This Fi you speak of is what keeps the churches values appropriate to its mass and is like a self check of powers.
    Im out, its been fun

  9. #69
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    I can choose to not give a damn about others opinions-but never their feelings-unless I am doing something that may hurt in the short term but will be better for them in the long term. To hurt with no reason has never been okay-even for my puny Fi.

    The love yourself though-this is weird as I have a great deal of self respect and self esteem. But there is something real odd about NeFiTe. The Fi has to judge the action for me in this case-the intentional hurting of another. Normally almost all other stuff gets judged with Te. But Fi is so puny, so ill refined, that it cant give a well resolved answer. It just says "BAD", no matter what the justification. Then it pulls out the Te machine of punishment and accountability. Like this:

    Fi: mirror perceived hurt of another-BAD
    Te: Well okay if you say so, even though it looks like logically this was really not the end of the world, and you can probably forgive yourself for this one. Was it really that big of a deal?
    Fi: mirror perceived hurt of another-EEEEVVVVIIILLLL
    Te: Well since you were evil, you should be chained in a basement and never released to interact with other humans you horrible monster. (while rolling eyes...)

    this felt different-like Fi kinda of recrunched the math because the feelings didnt make any sense-the actual feelings were in disagreement. I dunno... I'll keep on feeling.

    (This could take forever.)

    EDIT: The others are always loved more than me. I put others before myself. It seems to be an Fi rule of some sort.
    Fi isn't puny ... you're putting "Te expectations" on it. Fi will never give a well-resolved answer that you can state explicitly. The typical resolution you'll get out of Fi might be verbalized as, "Oh. OK," while a good resolution will be, "Oh, WOW!" That's why I get in touch with Fi and Fi-understanding by abandoning Te context. Not that Te isn't still there, but Te has explicitly decided that this is up to Fi, not Te. Te will just say something stupid to hurt Fi more, like "You're evil, so bad things should happen to you." You'd never say this to another person, don't say it to yourself. It's the Te-context that messes Fi up and makes the lake turbulent as it stirs things around.

    I understand that others are always loved before you, though while I think that's an Fi rule, it's your Fi-rule, not a general one. Fi is your attitude and choices and priorities: the explicit priorities, etc., are different from one person to the next.

    Hrm, I find myself typing and editing and deleting a lot at this point, trying to figure out what to say next, so rather than explain, I'll try to show.

    Start at Fi and your feelings. Create that. From there, there are others, outside of you, whom you love, who matter to you. Place those in your mental image. Your love goes from your Fi/feelings out to them. So loving yourself seems a bit weird, right? The love has to go out, and there's no way to redirect it back in. You can't mirror yourself. At this point I kind of have a Venn diagram, where Fi is in a circle in the middle, and then there's an outer circle that contains others and the love goes from in to out.

    Take that picture, and here's how to love yourself. Put a small flame/star/candle/sun in the very middle of the Fi/feelings. Make that your love. Don't ask where it comes from: that gets very metaphysical, and really doesn't matter. So that love comes from deep inside, then through you, and then finally to others. That is how you love yourself: if your source of love doesn't love you and warm you and show you how to become a better person, there is no way that you in your turn are able to actually shine that love upon others. In fact, if you don't properly love yourself, you block that warmth, and it cannot reach others. You need to understand love's effect on you, personally, in order to actually understand how to love others. Not just by mirroring their hurt and curling up in sympathetic pain, but by sharing yourself, your example, your warmth, with them.

    FWIW, this is how I recognize Fi in myself and others in real life: some people just shine. What Fi lacks in terms of Fe's adroitness with individuals it more than compensates by trying to embody goodness towards people in general. (This is not to detract from Fe - I know many Fe people who also shine, it's just that they aim and focus the light to varying degrees.)

  10. #70
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    EDIT: The others are always loved more than me. I put others before myself. It seems to be an Fi rule of some sort.
    I don't think that's attributable to function type. I do that too, as do many others, I'm sure.
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