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Thread: Need to Fi

  1. #51
    Member Juni's Avatar
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    INFJ or INFP? a closer look

    Go to the drop down menu at the top and click on "Interview about feeling differences."

    You are not alone in the way you are. It is just your INFJness coming out.

    I am INFP but borderline INFJ.

    It sounds like you respond to the emotions of others and do so very well. That is a strength. But when you are alone, you don't know what to feel.

    To get more in touch with Fi, you just have to look back at moments in your life, no matter how mundane or life changing they were, and think about how YOU felt about them.

    I don't know how to explain it well, but you have to put yourself in the place of others. You gave an example of your father's infidelity and that you won't do that because it hurt your mother deeply. Go back. Imagine you are your mother. Feel what she felt. Imagine it happened to you.

    Then watch a movie... something that takes you on an emotional roller coaster (Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind perhaps). Imagine yourself as both main characters, feel what they feel. Don't "respond", but "BE" them. Don't try to mimic their emotions, feel whatever is natural for you if you were put in those situations.

    That being said, I don't think Fi can be taught and learned, but it can be practiced.

  2. #52
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    so can I ask you guys a question about Fi?

    I can do the emotional mirroring innately-very strongly actually with animals or people, accutely painfully so.
    I place myself in other people's shoes all the time.
    But in the past I did not typically use Fi to make decisions-I use Te to logically find the correct path.

    This left me in a bind yesterday. I got my feelings hurt. Yet I felt I deserved it based upon my past, thus it was okay for the other person to hurt me. I cannot forgive myself for anything, yet I forgive others for everything.

    ^This is logically incorrect. I can rationalize that this makes no sense. Yet it doesnt change the way I feel or change the guilt I carry, alter the sense that I am flawed in someway and the sense of self criticism as I cant forgive myself. So I sort of spent this last day pondering the issue-not only is it logically flawed-it felt emotionally flawed, emotionally discordant in some way. So I just kept "feeling" at it and then the pieces all sorta clicked.

    Today it is totally okay to forgive myself. God this seems stupid-trivial. This is obvious. Yet yesterday it wasnt okay to forgive myself. Did I just develop an Fi rule of some sort?

  3. #53
    A passer by yvonne's Avatar
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    are you saying you have some past issues you haven't forgiven yourself for?

  4. #54
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    pretty much anything I ever do that hurts another person I carry a lot of guilt for. This means I very rarely hurt people actually, at least intentionally. Very, very rarely.

    But yeah when I do, it is really bad, lots of guilt, remorse, self blame-I judge myself exceptionally harshly. I cant forgive myself. So if those people hurt me, it seems deserved, even if logically that makes no sense.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    so can I ask you guys a question about Fi?

    I can do the emotional mirroring innately-very strongly actually with animals or people, accutely painfully so.
    I place myself in other people's shoes all the time.
    But in the past I did not typically use Fi to make decisions-I use Te to logically find the correct path.

    This left me in a bind yesterday. I got my feelings hurt. Yet I felt I deserved it based upon my past, thus it was okay for the other person to hurt me. I cannot forgive myself for anything, yet I forgive others for everything.

    ^This is logically incorrect. I can rationalize that this makes no sense. Yet it doesnt change the way I feel or change the guilt I carry, alter the sense that I am flawed in someway and the sense of self criticism as I cant forgive myself. So I sort of spent this last day pondering the issue-not only is it logically flawed-it felt emotionally flawed, emotionally discordant in some way. So I just kept "feeling" at it and then the pieces all sorta clicked.

    Today it is totally okay to forgive myself. God this seems stupid-trivial. This is obvious. Yet yesterday it wasnt okay to forgive myself. Did I just develop an Fi rule of some sort?
    I think you are learning to use a Fi to judge things internally as opposed to looking at all the details in a logical fashion. I dont think its a rule, but allowing yourself to look at things in a different way. Can I ask you if these pieces all clicking by feeling it out is also logically correct once more pieces were added to the puzzle?
    Im out, its been fun

  6. #56
    A passer by yvonne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    pretty much anything I ever do that hurts another person I carry a lot of guilt for. This means I very rarely hurt people actually, at least intentionally. Very, very rarely.

    But yeah when I do, it is really bad, lots of guilt, remorse, self blame-I judge myself exceptionally harshly. I cant forgive myself. So if those people hurt me, it seems deserved, even if logically that makes no sense.
    you must be a really nice person

    in life we can't really help hurting others and getting hurt, though. even if we don't want to hurt people, because we're different and don't always understand each other... it happens. all you can do really is apologizing and forgiving... and trying not to make the same mistakes again. guilt is a difficult feeling and if you carry it around it will just get you down.

    it's ok to make mistakes sometimes. we all do that.

  7. #57
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yvonne View Post
    you must be a really nice person

    in life we can't really help hurting others and getting hurt, though. even if we don't want to hurt people, because we're different and don't always understand each other... it happens. all you can do really is apologizing and forgiving... and trying not to make the same mistakes again. guilt is a difficult feeling and if you carry it around it will just get you down.

    it's ok to make mistakes sometimes. we all do that.
    You know-it sort of looks that way I guess-that I am nice. But I dont establish deep emo connections typically so the hurts I inflict are typically unintentional or not of deep significance. I think if I attached more deeply, I would have hurt more people in life.

    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    I think you are learning to use a Fi to judge things internally as opposed to looking at all the details in a logical fashion. I dont think its a rule, but allowing yourself to look at things in a different way. Can I ask you if these pieces all clicking by feeling it out is also logically correct once more pieces were added to the puzzle?
    So-the super Fi users-like Udog-say that Fi isnt simply emotion but using the way you feel to decide things.

    It is "judging" thus would it not be a rule? It sort of feels that way-like I pondered, felt, then decided but not logically. I can easily see situations where the "feeling" Fi answer would contradict the logical Te answer. (This is sooooo weird poki. Like doing math with blobs of pudding instead of apples. Look-one handful of pudding plus another handful of pudding equals a squishy pudding blob but some of it fell on the floor. But it is all good anyways)

  8. #58
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    so can I ask you guys a question about Fi?

    I can do the emotional mirroring innately-very strongly actually with animals or people, accutely painfully so.
    I place myself in other people's shoes all the time.
    But in the past I did not typically use Fi to make decisions-I use Te to logically find the correct path.

    This left me in a bind yesterday. I got my feelings hurt. Yet I felt I deserved it based upon my past, thus it was okay for the other person to hurt me. I cannot forgive myself for anything, yet I forgive others for everything.

    ^This is logically incorrect. I can rationalize that this makes no sense. Yet it doesnt change the way I feel or change the guilt I carry, alter the sense that I am flawed in someway and the sense of self criticism as I cant forgive myself. So I sort of spent this last day pondering the issue-not only is it logically flawed-it felt emotionally flawed, emotionally discordant in some way. So I just kept "feeling" at it and then the pieces all sorta clicked.

    Today it is totally okay to forgive myself. God this seems stupid-trivial. This is obvious. Yet yesterday it wasnt okay to forgive myself. Did I just develop an Fi rule of some sort?
    Possibly, or it's just Fi being Fi ... whimsical.

    I think of Te as being about making precise and analytical decisions. Some of the decisions are big and far-reaching, but always made for very particular reasons.

    Fi is about deciding who you are, what your attitude is. Fe with the streams has all sorts of possible adjustments that can be made with a fairly high degree of precision, like Te.

    The Fi lake does not admit as much control, and tends to do its own thing. It is possible, however, to choose to make the waters warmer or colder, to rise or fall; to make the lake deeper or shallower; to let the waters rise over the banks and flood the streams. All of this is doable, but it means making a decision about what kind of attitude one wishes to evoke, choosing what kind of person you are, choosing what kind of person you want to become.

    Big. Life changing. Decisions.

    There are a couple of rules that will help you to forgive yourself. One is to not give a damn about others' feelings. Another is to love yourself, as well as others.

    In your case, I doubt you made a conscious decision, otherwise you would have said so, so I suspect your forgiving of yourself is just the whimsy of Fi, that feelings have played out, and no longer torment you.

    If you'd like a rule, I've tried both the "not give a damn" and "love yourself" rules, and recommend the latter. The same love, caring, respect and responsibility that you feel for others, especially when you mirror them, express all of that toward yourself, too. You don't tell yourself to stop feeling guilty (Fi won't listen to you), but rather you process it, let yourself know and understand it, but you don't let the feeling torture you, because that is not loving. Focus on being the kind of person you want to be, using the guilt as constructive criticism instead of as punishment.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    You know-it sort of looks that way I guess-that I am nice. But I dont establish deep emo connections typically so the hurts I inflict are typically unintentional or not of deep significance. I think if I attached more deeply, I would have hurt more people in life.



    So-the super Fi users-like Udog-say that Fi isnt simply emotion but using the way you feel to decide things.

    It is "judging" thus would it not be a rule? It sort of feels that way-like I pondered, felt, then decided but not logically. I can easily see situations where the "feeling" Fi answer would contradict the logical Te answer. (This is sooooo weird poki. Like doing math with blobs of pudding instead of apples. Look-one handful of pudding plus another handful of pudding equals a squishy pudding blob but some of it fell on the floor. But it is all good anyways)
    For me its not a rule, but a current understanding based on the pieces. I have always seen Fi as an understanding. To bring this to logic, even if I make a decision it is layered with all these other situations that could logically change things, but I stick with my current understanding and allow these other layers to just kinda float around as possibilities so its not really a hard set rule. This to me is my openness or fuzziness in regards to Ti. Each layer or possibility has hard set logic but I can switch and move between these layers. Its nothing hard set as a rule and more data can sway it if it fits into the puzzle at anytime. I try to control this data so its not so one sided though. This is how I keep my openness.
    Im out, its been fun

  10. #60
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post

    There are a couple of rules that will help you to forgive yourself. One is to not give a damn about others' feelings. Another is to love yourself, as well as others.

    In your case, I doubt you made a conscious decision, otherwise you would have said so, so I suspect your forgiving of yourself is just the whimsy of Fi, that feelings have played out, and no longer torment you.
    I can choose to not give a damn about others opinions-but never their feelings-unless I am doing something that may hurt in the short term but will be better for them in the long term. To hurt with no reason has never been okay-even for my puny Fi.

    The love yourself though-this is weird as I have a great deal of self respect and self esteem. But there is something real odd about NeFiTe. The Fi has to judge the action for me in this case-the intentional hurting of another. Normally almost all other stuff gets judged with Te. But Fi is so puny, so ill refined, that it cant give a well resolved answer. It just says "BAD", no matter what the justification. Then it pulls out the Te machine of punishment and accountability. Like this:

    Fi: mirror perceived hurt of another-BAD
    Te: Well okay if you say so, even though it looks like logically this was really not the end of the world, and you can probably forgive yourself for this one. Was it really that big of a deal?
    Fi: mirror perceived hurt of another-EEEEVVVVIIILLLL
    Te: Well since you were evil, you should be chained in a basement and never released to interact with other humans you horrible monster. (while rolling eyes...)

    this felt different-like Fi kinda of recrunched the math because the feelings didnt make any sense-the actual feelings were in disagreement. I dunno... I'll keep on feeling.

    (This could take forever.)

    EDIT: The others are always loved more than me. I put others before myself. It seems to be an Fi rule of some sort.

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