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Thread: Need to Fi

  1. #21
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yvonne View Post
    do you think the streams are our emotional impulses, but the lake is the core where they're coming from... that's sort of what i was getting at with the core values... but it's not just the values, but everything that affects our emotional impulses?
    Sort of, but you're labeling too much again, in the context of the imagery.

    The streams might be regarded as established connections with other people, or perhaps "leaks" in which one is unconsciously expressing whatever is going on in the vast reservoir of Fi. I don't want to get too specific though, because that would inhibit your own self-exploration. If I try and point at Fi, you'll pay too much attention to my hand and fingers, and not what I'm pointing at. If I try to explain Fi, you'll pay too much attention to my words and labels, and not the subject I'm trying to explain.

  2. #22
    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    I like this imagery. Especially this seems to describe a lot of problems I encounter.

    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Fi has a bad reaction to "polluted Fe streams" coming in and diminishing the purity of the lake.

  3. #23
    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    Also, the ways in which my ENFJ roommate and I differ...

  4. #24
    A passer by yvonne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Sort of, but you're labeling too much again, in the context of the imagery.

    The streams might be regarded as established connections with other people, or perhaps "leaks" in which one is unconsciously expressing whatever is going on in the vast reservoir of Fi. I don't want to get too specific though, because that would inhibit your own self-exploration. If I try and point at Fi, you'll pay too much attention to my hand and fingers, and not what I'm pointing at. If I try to explain Fi, you'll pay too much attention to my words and labels, and not the subject I'm trying to explain.
    i think i understand.

  5. #25
    Crazy Diamond Billy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yvonne View Post
    do you think the streams are our emotional impulses, but the lake is the core where they're coming from... that's sort of what i was getting at with the core values... but it's not just the values, but everything that affects our emotional impulses?
    keeping with the streams thing, i think i would have to say in Fe's instance it would flow both ways. In and out of the lake. And its all the emotional energy, not just values.

    When I Fe, it goes both ways, my intention and my goals flowing out, other peoples feelings flowing into my lake. I like this metaphor, when a stream dumps into a lake it obfuscates the source of the lake which comes from underground springs. This is my major problem... peoples feelings affect me, I am like a sponge, i suck it all in and analyze it, but I also mainline empathize with it and it affects my mood.

    I do need to get in touch with the source of my lake, which sadly is very very deep but has entirely too many streams dumping into it, and at the same time its dumping it own waters into other lakes via the streams. All this makes it much harder for me to figure out what I think and feel.

    hence the source of my frustration.

    But I am trying to get to the root of the situation. Our lakes, are they always there, are they monolithic? Or did someone teach them to us? (dredge the hole and let the water collect from various sources?

    If thats the case, I should theoretically be able to choose my own dredging company and let my waters flow into that hole, sure it would have required outside assistance but at the same time its really the only way I think I can process. The trick is to make sure its consistent with the muddy little waters that were in the hole to begin with.

    I need some sort of PH tester.
    Ground control to Major Tom

  6. #26
    A passer by yvonne's Avatar
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    haha... yeah... i think some of it is probably there to begin with, like biology and what evolution has taught us... and the rest is experience...

    i think the lake has to be protected, so that too much doesn't come out and too much in, but still used.

  7. #27
    Crazy Diamond Billy's Avatar
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    Funny enough I had been terrified of my detached nature, if anything I am extremely Ni, that describes how i think perfectly, im constantly thinking in abstract terms, blowing up 100000000000000000s of possibilities and boiling them down to an answer. Now on one level I am also very rational and very logical, especially for an F. But I notice that what means more to me is that the F is protected and respected, I would rather die in battle for love or a cause to be consistent with myself then to run away and live, which would be much more logical, although the way I arrive at that conclusion is through logic... I make an assessment of what matters more to me, the cause or my safety. I usually delve into the cause because its the meaning that means more to me then the logical consistency of the situation. Which is weird because its all shrink wrapped in logic...

    Thus I know I have some Fi, some... not tons which is why I fall back on my thinking capabilities to sort of justify things.

    Thats why I know I am not an INTJ and I am an INFJ, and I am right now dating an INTJ female, and we have the same Ni nature, and she has feelings and she uses feelings to decide how she wants to decide what would be best for her, but then applies it completely logically and via systems and strategy.

    I envy her Fi because she knows where she stands on everything, but she fails so bad at figuring out what other people feel. She can figure what they're thinking and their intentions but it has this sort of logic twist to it by comparing things on a more strategic scale, whereas I would just tap into their head and figure out what they're feeling and why they're feeling it and then apply my own actions to soothe, fix, help, etc.

    I only say this because for a while my Ni nature had me fooled into thinking I was actually a T over an F, but now that I am really realizing the nature of Fe vs Fi, its becoming much clearer to me that I am Ni Fe, not Ni Te... its pretty fascinating to see how the difference between an F and T with Ni dominance can be, its quite fascinating indeed.

    But now that I am garnering that level of clarity I am looking for ways to sort of grow past this stalemate. I do appreciate everything everyone is saying though.

    The trick is since I dont Fi automatically I cant just focus on what I feel about things those feelings just arent developed in that way...

    It would be interesting to talk to some other INFJs, esp INFJ males who have conquered this problem already. My logic wasn't to build a system to solve this puzzle, which is why i'm here.
    Ground control to Major Tom

  8. #28
    A passer by yvonne's Avatar
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    INTJs are a tough type for me to figure out. that's why i'm interested in their opinions, because i have no idea what goes on in their brain. it appears that they don't know what they're feeling, but maybe it's me who doesn't know what i'm feeling... i certainly have no idea what they're feeling. i might think i do... and i might even go on to say that i've been right a few times... but maybe i'm just wrong in reading them that way.

    i'm always on edge when interacting with them. i feel *responsible*. i don't know what it is. maybe i should just stay away from them. i don't want to pollute their lakes

    and then again... they can annoy me and intrique me, but i don't wanna mess them up!

  9. #29
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    keeping with the streams thing, i think i would have to say in Fe's instance it would flow both ways. In and out of the lake. And its all the emotional energy, not just values.
    Yes.

    When I Fe, it goes both ways, my intention and my goals flowing out, other peoples feelings flowing into my lake. I like this metaphor, when a stream dumps into a lake it obfuscates the source of the lake which comes from underground springs. This is my major problem... peoples feelings affect me, I am like a sponge, i suck it all in and analyze it, but I also mainline empathize with it and it affects my mood.
    You got it. Your mood is the lake, turbulent with everyone else's energies.

    That's why "strong Fi" people often try to protect the lake, cut off or limit flows from the streams ... no streams or streams only flowing out, not in.

    You are so on the Fe side of F, blocking off the streams seems wrong, but then you don't know what to do with your lake.

    I do need to get in touch with the source of my lake, which sadly is very very deep but has entirely too many streams dumping into it, and at the same time its dumping it own waters into other lakes via the streams. All this makes it much harder for me to figure out what I think and feel.

    hence the source of my frustration.
    Yes.

    Hence the quiet time and isolation. It is introverted feeling, after all.

    But I am trying to get to the root of the situation. Our lakes, are they always there, are they monolithic? Or did someone teach them to us? (dredge the hole and let the water collect from various sources?
    Explore your own lake, and find out. No one else can.

    If thats the case, I should theoretically be able to choose my own dredging company and let my waters flow into that hole, sure it would have required outside assistance but at the same time its really the only way I think I can process. The trick is to make sure its consistent with the muddy little waters that were in the hole to begin with.

    I need some sort of PH tester.
    At this point, I think you're trying to treat your lake like a stream, and not a lake. With the streams, you get to control them to a large degree. That's the "Fe" ability. Fi is bass-ackwards from that. You don't "control the lake," you "understand the lake." Your lake isn't shallow, you just haven't explored its depths, yet.

  10. #30
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yvonne View Post
    INTJs are a tough type for me to figure out. that's why i'm interested in their opinions, because i have no idea what goes on in their brain. it appears that they don't know what they're feeling, but maybe it's me who doesn't know what i'm feeling... i certainly have no idea what they're feeling. i might think i do... and i might even go on to say that i've been right a few times... but maybe i'm just wrong in reading them that way.
    I remember a dialog from some movie or TV show or book. It went something like this:
    Him: I wish I knew what women wanted.
    Her: Oh, I can tell you that.
    Him: REALLY?! Tell me!
    Her: We don't know what we want.
    Him: Oh. I was afraid it was something like that.
    Most times INTJs are not in touch with their feelings. No, not even me: I explore Fi, but I don't live in Fi. So the reason you don't know what they feel is that they don't, either. Asking them what they feel will tend to flummox them, unless it's a rote thing like saying "I love you."

    i'm always on edge when interacting with them. i feel *responsible*. i don't know what it is. maybe i should just stay away from them. i don't want to pollute their lakes

    and then again... they can annoy me and intrique me, but i don't wanna mess them up!
    Then that means you're the ideal person to get to know them: respect them for who they are, and you'll eventually get to visit their lakes ... or perhaps you might be privileged enough to show them around their own lake that they'd never explored before.

    Yeah, it's touch and go. The emotions are raw. Just be gentle. They're immune to everything emotional except that which they invite in.

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