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Thread: Need to Fi

  1. #11
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Er, I'll take a stab...

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    People that are Fi dominant, do they come to conclusions on their own or is it learned? I could easily shadow other peoples beliefs and if feelings are just learned behaviors who is to say I cant chose my teacher?
    For me, feelings can be discovered, but they always relate back to some base feeling or principle I hold as true. It's more that I become aware of them in terms that are understandable and so it's not just abstract feeling. I will only adopt an external value that agrees with these basic principles. A violation of these sends an alarm off.

    Fi can be like an internal compass at times. My emotional feeling can be very vague in the sense that it's so layered & nuanced it is often not clearly "happy" or "sad", but it's still pointing me in a general direction. However, I still have to map it out to get to the destination or conclusion (sometimes you go the wrong way at first...but you will navigate your emotional terrain with more confidence the more you do it).

    This involves reason of course. A significant emotional feeling may remain vague, as often it's so broad it will be a trigger for forming many values (or emotional explorations), but now I will have some clear values defined from it. The more I explore the emotion, the more I will come to understand what I value. Then I consider what the value itself means, how it connects to other values, and in that process, my base principles become clearer, and I can identify them with broad ideas like "peace" and "honesty".

    INFPs naturally spend a lot of time reasoning on why they feel something, what it means, and how it relates to themselves. Introspection is the key. It cannot happen overnight. You will probably have to search a lot before finding an answer within. Fi-doms may do it a bit faster because it's very natural to do it, but even we spend much time mulling something over. In all honestly, it's nothing close to this linear and it may occur in images or waves of atmosphere or random phrases popping into your head that represent the feeling behind an emotion, accompanied by a thorough examination and deconstruction of these feelings & emotions. That's why Fi is hard to define.

    Try breaking down your Ni insights and reforming them by relating them to yourself. I'd also ask some ISFPs how they feel their dom-Fi works with their tert-Ni.

    I think the greenlight wiki exercise below is a decent way to get the ball rolling. "Self-empathy" might be a good way for you to look at it. I think that Fi reasons more than this describes; but before Fi reasons, it identifies what an emotion means, or at least one of its possible meanings. Right now, you need to get to that point before you can form values.


    From greenlight wiki:

    To experience Introverted Feeling:

    - As you come across the action of any mammal engaged in any activity (including humans), say to yourself, "He/she is feeling ______ because he is needing ______" and fill in the blanks. Guess the mammal's emotion as accurately as you can, by paying close attention to every detail of its behavior and trying to imagine what emotion that you might feel if you were that kind of mammal and acting that way. Guess the need by intuiting the inner calling of the animal that is emerging in the way it's responding to its environment, by recalling a similar need of your own. For example, if you see a Scotty dog sniffing around at a new suitcase, you might guess, "He is feeling apprehensive because he has a need to know he's safe." Or you might guess, "He is feeling curious because he has a need to learn all about the world around him." It depends unpredictably on exactly what you really observe. Key is to watch the mammal extremely closely, so your guess emerges spontaneously from empathizing, and not, say, by consciously reasoning on the basis of something you've read. Your guess must come from the fact that you yourself genuinely feel it. It must come from the heart.

    - Try the same exercise on yourself at odd moments: self-empathy. Simply monitor how much you like or dislike something, and what in your nature is being fulfilled or frustrated to cause that feeling of like or dislike. Note that attending to your emotion alone is not enough; you must trace the emotion back to a need that is being fulfilled or frustrated. However, if you're having trouble with this, you might try just consciously noting your emotion for a while, as a starter exercise.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  2. #12
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Wow, Fi is tough to explain. I'm going to try to be as generalised as possible. Here is the process:

    1.Think of a situation you experienced lately that made you feel uncertain or uneasy.
    2. Think about how the situation made you and others feel. How would you feel if you were in each person's place? Consider whether each person's behaviour seems instinctively right or wrong to you.
    3. Weigh up the emotional experience felt by each individual involved. Whose feelings seemed more significant or valid? Whose feelings appeared to deserve your support above the others?
    4. Take the stance that most deserves your support

    And to take the process futher from an INFP perspective (in the FiNeSiTe combination):
    5. Try to come up with similar situations you have experienced, read about, or saw in movies etc.
    6. Try to imagine how you would feel if you were one of the people in the other examples. Do steps 2 and 3 for the other examples. Ask yourself why certain perspectives felt right or wrong.
    7. Find a common thread between the situations. Consider what it is that makes them the same or different. Find an explaination for the differences that fits with the common thread. What seems consistently right or wrong across each situation? (difficult to explain )
    8. Formulate a general value based stance for the issue.

    I guess the point isn't to sympathize another person's experience but to imagine you were in their place. Then try to find a way to reconcile that imagined experience with your behaviour.

  3. #13
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Billy, look at the things you enjoy doing. Pick something you're passionate about that doesn't involve other people, a hobby or something. Now, ask yourself the question why you enjoy it. What feeling does it invoke in you? Why is it pleasurable? What do you gain from that activity?

    They're not easy questions, and you will get frustrated figuring them out...but once you figure them out, you're on the way to figuring out how your own emotions work

    Consider your own emotions a system within you, much like Ti builds a logical system. And figure out what emotions trigger what (re)action and vice versa in yourself. You'll understand yourself that much better afterwards. And realize this is a gigantic puzzle...there's always room for improvement and new discovery
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  4. #14
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    Basically, you don't have Fi effectively and will never will at least that's what I think. Just use your Fe or if alone, Ni.
    Last edited by Craft; 03-30-2010 at 10:50 AM.

  5. #15
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    I have a love/hate thing with it too... I cant lie and say its bad, my Fe endears me to people. They come to me and open up to me and I listen intently and genuinely feel empathy for them. However... when do I get mine? ya know?

    Is there a way to develop those feelings? Thats why i'm trying to find out. People that are Fi dominant, do they come to conclusions on their own or is it learned? I could easily shadow other peoples beliefs and if feelings are just learned behaviors who is to say I cant chose my teacher?
    Actually, part of this is your Fi. When do you get yours, ya know?

    You already have a good understanding of F, and I envy your facility with Fe. You know how feelings "work." That's good.

    Fi is how feelings "are."

    It just is.

    Here's some imagery that might help you, with a bit of meditation ...

    Imagine a large lake, with streams flowing in and streams flowing out. The lake is very deep. Investigating its depths will take time. The streams are quick and fast and shallow. Sometimes they're dry, sometimes they're flooded. The only rule is that they're changeable.

    You are the lake and the streams. Fi is the lake. Fe is the streams.

    Your consciousness has been focusing on the streams, not the lake. You take the lake for granted. The streams are active and sparkly, fresh and new. They interest you more. The water from each stream tastes slightly different, you relish those differences. You are even adept and changing the course and flow of the streams, such is your skill and knowledge. But you ignore the lake.

    Now, in this meditation, stop ignoring the lake. Let the streams run dry, let the waters run still. Let the lake's water stop churning up obscuring mud.

    Imagine the sun shining from above into the lake. Sit and wait. Watch the mud and silt slowly settle to the lake's bottom. Imagine being deep within the lake, slowly getting brighter and brighter as the mud settles, lit by the sunlight from above. Eventually, with time, it becomes very clear. You cannot force the clarity, you can only wait for it to gradually become so. Eventually, you start seeing the fish, the plants, the debris, and everything that has accumulated within that huge, very deep lake of Fi.

    Once you have had the patience to sit alone with yourself and let this happen, letting your thoughts and feelings happen, not forcing them, you will gradually come to understand Fi.

    When do you get yours? You don't.

    You already have it.

  6. #16
    A passer by yvonne's Avatar
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    ^ that was an interesting read. i've never thought of it that way, even though i have thought of emotions (Fe?) as something fleeting, but i haven't thought that there could be an underlying "lake" (Fi) there somewhere to be separated...

    what is it then? does it consist of your core values, or what?

  7. #17
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yvonne View Post
    ^ that was an interesting read. i've never thought of it that way, even though i have thought of emotions (Fe?) as something fleeting, but i haven't thought that there could be an underlying "lake" (Fi) there somewhere to be separated...

    what is it then? does it consist of your core values, or what?
    The lake consists of what you find therein.

    "Core values" is a very weak description of Fi and how it works. Yes, it serves that role, but Fi is not "just core values" any more than an iPhone is "just a music player."

    Overall, I find the lake/streams imagery to be very useful. Fi has a bad reaction to "polluted Fe streams" coming in and diminishing the purity of the lake. Fi is rather internalized and hard to fathom, but when it is expressed (in an almost extroverted way) it can be overwhelming, as if there were a dam holding it all in, and it just burst.

    A key part of the image is that everyone has both the streams and the lake, where the streams connect to others and the lake is one's own reservoir. The difference between Fe and Fi is that Fe is aware of the streams, but can be largely unaware of the lake, while Fi is preoccupied with the lake, not quite realizing how the turmoil or placidity of the lake is affecting the streams.

    I should mention that the image is not intended to imply that Fe is somehow "more shallow" that Fi in a crass, derogatory way, but rather to highlight how each style flows.

  8. #18
    A passer by yvonne's Avatar
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    are the streams other people's emotions and the lake your own?

  9. #19
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yvonne View Post
    are the streams other people's emotions and the lake your own?
    That's getting too specific. The streams are the Fe connections to others, but they aren't other's emotions, or even your emotions. More specifically, Fe is being aware of the streams. Similarly, the lake isn't really just your emotions, as I said earlier. Fi is being aware of the lake.

    It's imagery for meditation, to try and help you lead yourself to a deeper understanding of yourself. It's not an abstract theoretical model in which everything can be objectively labeled. Trying to understand Fe and particularly Fi in an objective way will fail. You have to let go and just perceive, using the imagery as a starting point.

    You might learn something, or you might not. It is necessarily self-exploration, because Fi is by definition extremely subjective.

  10. #20
    A passer by yvonne's Avatar
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    do you think the streams are our emotional impulses, but the lake is the core where they're coming from... that's sort of what i was getting at with the core values... but it's not just the values, but everything that affects our emotional impulses?

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