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  1. #31
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    hello fellow enfp,

    I know an INFJ women who is actually very sweet and caring but is having an affair with a married man who we both work with. I have never actually questioned her about this but I spoke with a few other INFJs. They use a different set of cognitive functions than ENFPs. I think they can actually be a lot more caring to be honest on the day to day, but I think it also allows a few who are not so happy to have the ability to do things like have an affair and maintain a level of emotional distance that few enfps can manage. I think Fe allows them to distance themselves and be much more cautious in how they deeply they connect than the average enfp can. Fe is a beautiful function that I envy everyday for how it is so caring and loving of the others, but it is very different from our Fi.

    Affairs are not about sex-they are about core relationship issues most often. She was likely is using the affair as a distraction, from those issues but does did love her husband. I understand your pain, I find it legitimate, and say it is not unreasonable, so would never dream to judge you-just make suggestions.

    What you are feeling-the frustration and the need to talk through the problem with her-these both derive from the way you are programmed as an enfp. You use Te to resolve problems when in pain. To relieve the pain you feel a need to discuss in a blunt point by point fashion what went wrong and force an acknowledgement of error and a logical solution. If that is not allowed you feel a desire to lash out angrily to stop the pain, to quell it. It is Te driving you to solve the problem.

    An INFJ uses Fe and thus her behavior in this situation will be almost opposite in nature-by innate programming. The other INFJs can explain her motives and thoughts far better than I-but her behavior will be to withdraw and avoid conflict. She has decided it is not a path she wishes to move forward on. INFJs are pretty stubborn so nothing you can say will change her mind on this issue.

    This Fe behavior will feel distinctly like you have been shunned. It will be extremely painful as the worst thing you can do to an enfp is to allow them to open up to you honestly, share their emotions, then to shun and reject them as flawed.

    However in this situation, you are an ant banging on the walls of a castle. The harder you push an Fe user, the more she will retreat away from you and the colder her response will be. This is a losing situation.

    This will be harsh but you need to recognize a few very certain truths:

    1) She did not have the emotional tie you had. She did not feel the depth of feelings that you did. It is perfectly okay to be very hurt by that confusion. Most enfps are pretty intense when we love and authentic and sincere. I have never felt Fe, but it seems that love in an Fe relationship is a more complex unfolding thing, than the simple Fi that enfps use.

    2) She is a lost cause. Her withdraw is a sign she is not interested in anything more to do with you. Whatever her rational, it is over. She is placing Fe barriers between you and her. You will not improve matters by pushing forward. She will call you a stalker. I would suggest a very strong retreat actually. Completely sever your contact with her. This will allow you to heal.

    3) Ask your self this-would you have really wanted to trust your heart and soul to someone who would hurt another person the way she hurt her husband and you? You are trusting the most sacred part of yourself to another-make sure they are worthy of that love and will not abuse your trust. Your soul is beautiful. Cherish it, find worth in yourself and find distance from this person who continues to hurt you.

    4) Look inside yourself-I cannot judge you-it is not my place to judge others-You must apply your own values to your actions. I would suggest you think upon why did you think it was okay to have an affair with this women who was married? Look inside and feel not just your pain. Feel her husbands pain. Imagine his pain if he found out. Let yourself feel that and recognize you hurt another person. You have sort of reaped the rewards of what you sowed it seems.

    It will be difficult as when we are under stress and in pain we resort to our inferior Si and it makes us fixate on the thing causing our pain-in your case this INFJ. You will feel trapped in cycles of pain and anger.

    You need to first establish a significant distance between you and her.
    Second find a task or project that occupies your mind and heart. Visit loved ones, read a good book, start a project, painting, gardening, star gazing, something to distract you. Recognize this pain will not abate, but will continue onwards for awhile longer. Allow yourself to feel it, acknowledge it, then forgive her for the pain she inflicted. Anger is of no use, so let it drift away into nothingness. If you can find a hobby which involves kinesthetic aspects-like painting, these seem to allow an externalization of that pain you feel.

    Seek affirmation of your worth from other friends-recognize that you are loved and cherished, even if not by this particular person. Your feelings are real, your hurt is legitimate, and it is fair to feel this way, it is how you are designed but you have to let go.

    There are many, many others who would love you in return and cherish you. Forgive her, but in your mind begin to sever all ties to her, all emotional connectivities. They were in vain and wasted from the start. Just move on.

  2. #32
    Senior Member toast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainne View Post
    Now this is why you should never get too attached to things.
    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    Comedy gold!
    ...hiss... T's.... This isn't a rational problem & the guy's seeming instability is highly emotional. Hes asking for help & is obviously upset.

    No offense to anyone specific, but am I the only one who's really tired of that worn out: "there's plenty of fish in the sea" crap? To me is just seems like such a cop out for genuine encouragement or support. Maybe im too empathetic but this is about his feelings for one woman, not his general interest in getting laid or pursuing a relationship.

    To the OP, I know youre hurt and so confused but gosh please do not keep obsessing about whether or not shes lying. Trying to figure that out is equal to gaining revenge. It will not make her change her mind about you or bring you any comfort. You are looking to find some understanding in her treatment of you by projecting your feelings of doubt onto her and assuming she may not truly have rejected you in her heart. This is a losing game. You need to take care of yourself and realize this obsession you have with the "truth" is going to hurt you worse than she did.
    ____________________________________________
    "In my soul rages a battle without victor. Between faith without proof and reason without charm." - Sully Prudhomme

  3. #33
    Senior Member WoodsWoman's Avatar
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    She was married??

    If she left/divorced on man to be with you what in the world makes you think she wouldn't do the same thing to you eventually?

    I highly recommend the book Compelled to Control by J. Keith Miller - it's a marvelous book for self understanding.

  4. #34
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Default love ramblings and a response...........

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelemvor View Post
    Hello !

    I don't know how or why, but it's happened. We lived great moments, but we (I) decided that it must have an end.

    Later, I realised, that it was already too late for my part...I was too attached to her, really too much...

    I returned to her and begged for pardon, and to leave her husband for me...
    Her attitude toward changed from white to black. She became cold and said that she love her man and will never leave him for me. She also said that she did not want to have to deal with me anymore.
    I don't know why but I felt in her at this moment a great sorrow too...

    Times later, I saw her with another man who wasn't her husband...
    I never felt such an intense pain in my life. This pain kept on and on during months...

    Some months later, I heard that this man was going to get married. And by coincidence, she too was on her way to divorce...

    My pain attained paroxysm.

    It had to stop ! I decided to demand her directly if it happened something between the two of them. She answered negatively and said that it was just her confident. She took it bad by the same opportunity...

    I didn't trust her. I went directly to the other guy and asked him the same thing.
    He confirmed that he was getting married but with another women and treated me as a paranoid. He said that it's been a very long time since the last time he spoke with her.

    Perhaps I'm really paranoid ?
    Why did she divorced ?!! She said that she'll never do it...

    I know that she left his husband for another one, I'm sure of this statement.


    I'm here cause I thought some INFJ might help me with this.
    So please...
    Well, first of all I'm sorry for your pain and that this relationship didn't sync up for you. It's easy to fall for someone. What isn't easy is the timing, and the logistics of it all. We are mere mortals who have alien abilities when it comes to loving. (why do i think of jock when i write this? i think it's the alien avatar and the absurdity of what i said that sounds distinctly intp )


    Quote Originally Posted by Kelemvor View Post
    What if all that is my fault ? What if I was just as paranoid as the other said ?
    What if she really divorced because of me ?
    I won't stand the feeling of having destroyed her life.
    No...I cannot move on...
    You might have helped incite her passions. You might have triggered something in her that wanted to be free. But if you were the one she ultimately wanted to be with, you would have known, because she would have contacted you and made it clear. We use Fe right? We know where you are and how to get what we want, don't underestimate that.

    INFJ's never express them selves directly. It's perhaps just me...but...it's like I felt that she was telling me to be patient...
    Nah, That's more Ts. INFJs can be very expressive if they trust and like you. She probably felt your neediness and started distancing herself emotionally from you, which is when you felt the 'blackness' you referred to.



    If the first possibility is the real one, then I must find a way to recontact her cause she can't, and even if she could, she will never do it (not directly at least). And this Automatically means that she is suffering at least as much as me. I cannot allow it...

    If it's the second, then they both lied to me by pure egoism. In this case, they must pay.



    I don't know.
    Look, if the bolded is true, and she loves you, she most likely is NOT INFJ, which doesn't matter at all, but do not delude yourself with what I call The Lover's Paradox; which is when you think a person loves you but can't express it somehow. That is the stuff of fantasies and fiction. How often do you really see that play out in real life?

    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    hello fellow enfp,

    I know an INFJ women who is actually very sweet and caring but is having an affair with a married man who we both work with. I have never actually questioned her about this but I spoke with a few other INFJs. They use a different set of cognitive functions than ENFPs. I think they can actually be a lot more caring to be honest on the day to day, but I think it also allows a few who are not so happy to have the ability to do things like have an affair and maintain a level of emotional distance that few enfps can manage. I think Fe allows them to distance themselves and be much more cautious in how they deeply they connect than the average enfp can. Fe is a beautiful function that I envy everyday for how it is so caring and loving of the others, but it is very different from our Fi.

    Affairs are not about sex-they are about core relationship issues most often. She was likely is using the affair as a distraction, from those issues but does did love her husband. I understand your pain, I find it legitimate, and say it is not unreasonable, so would never dream to judge you-just make suggestions.

    What you are feeling-the frustration and the need to talk through the problem with her-these both derive from the way you are programmed as an enfp. You use Te to resolve problems when in pain. To relieve the pain you feel a need to discuss in a blunt point by point fashion what went wrong and force an acknowledgement of error and a logical solution. If that is not allowed you feel a desire to lash out angrily to stop the pain, to quell it. It is Te driving you to solve the problem.

    An INFJ uses Fe and thus her behavior in this situation will be almost opposite in nature-by innate programming. The other INFJs can explain her motives and thoughts far better than I-but her behavior will be to withdraw and avoid conflict. She has decided it is not a path she wishes to move forward on. INFJs are pretty stubborn so nothing you can say will change her mind on this issue.

    This Fe behavior will feel distinctly like you have been shunned. It will be extremely painful as the worst thing you can do to an enfp is to allow them to open up to you honestly, share their emotions, then to shun and reject them as flawed.

    However in this situation, you are an ant banging on the walls of a castle. The harder you push an Fe user, the more she will retreat away from you and the colder her response will be. This is a losing situation.

    This will be harsh but you need to recognize a few very certain truths:

    1) She did not have the emotional tie you had. She did not feel the depth of feelings that you did. It is perfectly okay to be very hurt by that confusion. Most enfps are pretty intense when we love and authentic and sincere. I have never felt Fe, but it seems that love in an Fe relationship is a more complex unfolding thing, than the simple Fi that enfps use.

    2) She is a lost cause. Her withdraw is a sign she is not interested in anything more to do with you. Whatever her rational, it is over. She is placing Fe barriers between you and her. You will not improve matters by pushing forward. She will call you a stalker. I would suggest a very strong retreat actually. Completely sever your contact with her. This will allow you to heal.

    3) Ask your self this-would you have really wanted to trust your heart and soul to someone who would hurt another person the way she hurt her husband and you? You are trusting the most sacred part of yourself to another-make sure they are worthy of that love and will not abuse your trust. Your soul is beautiful. Cherish it, find worth in yourself and find distance from this person who continues to hurt you.

    4) Look inside yourself-I cannot judge you-it is not my place to judge others-You must apply your own values to your actions. I would suggest you think upon why did you think it was okay to have an affair with this women who was married? Look inside and feel not just your pain. Feel her husbands pain. Imagine his pain if he found out. Let yourself feel that and recognize you hurt another person. You have sort of reaped the rewards of what you sowed it seems.

    It will be difficult as when we are under stress and in pain we resort to our inferior Si and it makes us fixate on the thing causing our pain-in your case this INFJ. You will feel trapped in cycles of pain and anger.

    You need to first establish a significant distance between you and her.
    Second find a task or project that occupies your mind and heart. Visit loved ones, read a good book, start a project, painting, gardening, star gazing, something to distract you. Recognize this pain will not abate, but will continue onwards for awhile longer. Allow yourself to feel it, acknowledge it, then forgive her for the pain she inflicted. Anger is of no use, so let it drift away into nothingness. If you can find a hobby which involves kinesthetic aspects-like painting, these seem to allow an externalization of that pain you feel.

    Seek affirmation of your worth from other friends-recognize that you are loved and cherished, even if not by this particular person. Your feelings are real, your hurt is legitimate, and it is fair to feel this way, it is how you are designed but you have to let go.

    There are many, many others who would love you in return and cherish you. Forgive her, but in your mind begin to sever all ties to her, all emotional connectivities. They were in vain and wasted from the start. Just move on.
    I love this post. It is very emotionally validating. (i don't recognize your username/have you changed it?)

    I have been pondering relationships and affairs and love for a very long time; am a student of it, like many others. And I just have come to understand that whether you can love more than one person, or have an affair, really is not contained, at least well, within type theory. We are all capable of loving more, and we can all find ourselves in a cheating situation if we are not careful; what differentiates us is our egos, our life situations, our level of contentment, our ability to withstand discomfort, our past core relationships, our personal values and mores, and their expression in us.

    Fe/Fi doesn't matter as far as I've seen. N/S doesn't matter. Some types--NFs, might attach quicker, have a harder time disconnecting for various reasons, might idealize more; but they might not, depending on the individual.

    As a poly, I am so tired of the cliches I see on here; that people who cheat or love others have a problem in their marriage, that affairs are not about sex (really?hmmm), that you can only really love one person the 'right' way, yada, yada, yada. And if a person chooses not to continue an affair, it might not mean at all that they didn't fully love the other person, it might just mean something kicked in in their psyche which told them it wasn't a good idea to continue.




    ramblings about love............

    Why do we always apply black and white emotions to love? It's like we are so primitive when it comes to love; we are victims of love's charms. We want to starve and we are sick and we want to birth and we want to kill and we want to die--all for Romantic Love. These are extremely primitive physical expressions, and we experience them commonly surrounding Love. Recognize it: Romantic love is not more than another tool nature uses to make us procreate. We don't see as we stand under the arbor of Life a little too close to the vine of Romantic Love, that it is enticing us with jasmine fumes and before we know what has happened to us, it festoons us in wreaths of intrigue. Yet we are not evolved enough to deflect it, even the strongest among us. If Love was truly what we needed it to be, the physical manifestations of it would be joy and contentment and peacefulness and happiness. The Time of Procreation is over! It is time for Re-creation; a time to heal the world we have scorched with our greedy libidos.

    It's time for a New Love. A more expansive love of everything and everyone, an unconditional love; not so much a procreation kind of possessive love.

    Think about it: Romantic love as we know it can actually be the main deterrent to unconditional love; how weird is that concept? In loving only one to distraction, it can keep us from loving many, from loving more. Perhaps not as deeply, but more acceptingly. For example, we can have children and love them all equally and unconditionally, yet we distance ourselves somewhat because we know they are their own person; they will assume their own place in the world, which is as it should be. Yet at the first opportunity nature makes us want to attach, and to attach as deeply as possible, and attach for the rest of our lives, giving our best to that one other person, who is supposed to be everything to us, forever! If we don't, we feel jealous and angry; and we eventually feel detached and depressed, in great numbers. Can we not see the flaws in this model? We are surely evolved and intelligent enough beings that we can now say, No! It is time for a more unifying and less dividing Love. We need it to heal us; we need it to heal our great World. How can we evolve out of this greedy model of Procreative Love and--Recreate Love?
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    Life Path 11

    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  5. #35
    Cat Wench ReadingRainbows's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelemvor View Post
    I'm here cause I thought some INFJ might help me with this.
    I'm going to add in some different information and join the the tune of the rest of the infjs in this thread. To start with, this woman is obviously very immature and big time trouble written all over her. This goes for any type. I know that feelings of being in love are hard to write off, but you HAVE to let her go. It will eat YOU from the inside out if you do not. Because this really isn't about her it's about YOU. You know how many INFJs are on this planet? Go find another one, or better yet, let your destiny happen to you. This woman walked all over you, disrespected you and used you for her own means. (Are you male or female BTW) Don't stand for that. I'm sensing you have some self esteem issues. Work on yourself, and let your future come to you. I know inside you are probably shrieking but you have to be honest with yourself, did this relationship give you all that you wanted or all that you needed, or are you idealizing this out of the pain of failure?
    You need to forgive her and forgive yourself. Let your anger go. I will be honest OP some of your statements are bit disturbing. Make a new life for yourself and put this to your back. No good can come of the situation described, no matter what the ententions you have or she has. This relationship was forged on lies and therefore you cannot expect more from it.
    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    St. Stephen took rocks and St. Sebastian took arrows. You only have to take some jerks on an internet forum. Nut up.

  6. #36
    Senior Member toast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    ramblings about love............
    I like this post.
    I think about this often, especially lately. Unfortunately its a concept that, while possible, is very ahead of our time.

    I've been studying theology, especially angelology for a long time. There is a strong correlation to this idea & the concept of angelic love. There is a big obsession in reference with the idea that angels would have romantic love towards creatures, but in reality, romantic love would be a focused, perhaps filtered & therefore narrower type of love than the love they would know through their understanding. It would denaturize a perfect love, lessen its meaning through a specific type of intensity that is, in many ways, unnecessary to them. Though, if believing in the idea of a perfect kind of love, I say it makes sense that 'romantic love' is a human condition, at least temporarily. (I mean, what are humans if not animals making themselves something more by trying to be)? I suppose it also depends on the personal definition of "romantic", because to me it is the recognition of something deeper and purer behind the chemical and sexual responses that bring people together. I'm not discrediting the idea that what is called "romantic" in this sense might one day become something more universally 'evolved' though. I agree that this is definitely something for anyone who tries to work through 'love' issues to think about.
    ____________________________________________
    "In my soul rages a battle without victor. Between faith without proof and reason without charm." - Sully Prudhomme

  7. #37
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    Orobas...you're a god !

    But...
    Retreat is for weak.
    I'll be painting by her blood, that's the only thing that will appease my anger. Let it destroy me...

    No good can come from life...

    Aphrodite ==>

  8. #38
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toast View Post
    I like this post.
    I think about this often, especially lately. Unfortunately its a concept that, while possible, is very ahead of our time.

    I've been studying theology, especially angelology for a long time. There is a strong correlation to this idea & the concept of angelic love. There is a big obsession in reference with the idea that angels would have romantic love towards creatures, but in reality, romantic love would be a focused, perhaps filtered & therefore narrower type of love than the love they would know through their understanding. It would denaturize a perfect love, lessen its meaning through a specific type of intensity that is, in many ways, unnecessary to them. Though, if believing in the idea of a perfect kind of love, I say it makes sense that 'romantic love' is a human condition, at least temporarily. (I mean, what are humans if not animals making themselves something more by trying to be)? I suppose it also depends on the personal definition of "romantic", because to me it is the recognition of something deeper and purer behind the chemical and sexual responses that bring people together. I'm not discrediting the idea that what is called "romantic" in this sense might one day become something more universally 'evolved' though. I agree that this is definitely something for anyone who tries to work through 'love' issues to think about.
    Thanks.

    I agree. We cannot, as high-thinking animals, just decide we want to adopt a new model and have it stick, because we are battling eons of evolutionary forces which has bred us this way.

    But I think some of us, myself included, are starting to have a consciousness about the existence of new paradigms for loving and living, that might, most certainly, be more conducive to our success as a species.
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  9. #39
    Senior Member toast's Avatar
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    ^ werd.
    ____________________________________________
    "In my soul rages a battle without victor. Between faith without proof and reason without charm." - Sully Prudhomme

  10. #40
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    success as a species.
    Ah yes, the most subjective of all subjective concepts in the world.

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