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Thread: NFs and truth

  1. #71
    Phoenix Incarnate Sentura's Avatar
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    the problem i have about an "absolute truth" is that we as humanity know next to nothing about the universe, or how it works. i don't mind that we excel in what we have made ourselves, such as math of various kinds, but as soon as you interpolate the absolute abstract image of math on the concrete physical universe, there's bound to be errors everywhere.

    this is why in physics you can only prove things empirically; there cannot be anything absolutely proven in the real world. because of that, and because of the discovery of quantum mechanics, i am very much beginning to doubt that this world is as objective as we try to rationalize it as. it would be ignorant to assume that we know, or are even able to comprehend every truth about the universe.
    i hunt INXPs for bounty
    FUNCTION ORDER FOR THOSE THAT CANNOT UNDERSTAND WHAT ENXP MEANS: Ne > Ni > Fi=Ti > *

    ...people tell me i have wildfires in my eyes

  2. #72
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Wouldnt it be boring if we would know everything ?
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  3. #73
    Phoenix Incarnate Sentura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Wouldnt it be boring if we would know everything ?
    it depends how you define everything. to me, everything means even the undefined, and things beyond the spectrum of comprehension our mind offers. how would you ever be able to know the unknowable?
    i hunt INXPs for bounty
    FUNCTION ORDER FOR THOSE THAT CANNOT UNDERSTAND WHAT ENXP MEANS: Ne > Ni > Fi=Ti > *

    ...people tell me i have wildfires in my eyes

  4. #74
    Senior Member Erudur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    I have no problem processing truth, I just don't believe in it in the same sense that NTs do.

    Truth is an interpretation of the available information. It is what people conform to believing is the most verifiable conclusion. Truth is an individual perspective. It is completely subjective and everyone sees it differently. If not, then it's because they choose to conform to someone else's perception of truth. There are no absolute truths in this world, only best fit truths that are suitable for certain situations and points in time. People and society are always changing and evolving. Truth inevitably changes and evolves with them.

    Of course, I'm sure not all NFs and certainly not all NFJs feel that way.

    Edit: *Just realized whose thread he replied to and quickly covers his quick*
    I love the irony of how somebody can make such an unsubstantiated (unsubstantiatable) absolute statement like this.

    That is all. As I am not an NF, I will leave now.

  5. #75
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sentura View Post
    it depends how you define everything. to me, everything means even the undefined, and things beyond the spectrum of comprehension our mind offers. how would you ever be able to know the unknowable?
    Well everything is everything, including the unimagineable.

    But I get your point, good luck with your search and enjoy it, its the best part
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  6. #76
    Member Phenix's Avatar
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    Wave/particle duality implies that a wave function is indeterminate until observed. The way humans sense/perceive/observe is ipso facto interpretive. Our brains interpret outside stimuli and associate meaining. This would suggest that even our most solid observed facts are formed through a process of interpretation and that all reality could then be considered interpretive.

  7. #77
    morose bourgeoisie
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    So this is how yal talk among yourselves? lol. Funny/sad.

  8. #78
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    I don't think I'm that detached from my senses. Everyone lives on the same planet, with the same basic bodily functions to "interface" with it.. If you don't, you should call up your doctor and check that out. It doesn't sound good. And there's an element of Ne that's very much tied to the present, external circumstances. It's called extroverted intuition for a reason. Fi and Ti both have access to it. Fi isn't any less in touch with truth or more presumptuous. It places different kinds of importance and value on information, but it doesn't mean it's out of touch with information itself.

    Extraverted iNtuiting involves noticing hidden meanings and interpreting them, often entertaining a wealth of possible interpretations from just one idea or interpreting what someone’s behavior really means. It also involves seeing things “as if,” with various possible representations of reality. Using this process, we can juggle many different ideas, thoughts, beliefs, and meanings in our mind at once with the possibility that they are all true. This is like weaving themes and threads together. We don’t know the weave until a thought thread appears or is drawn out in the interaction of thoughts, often brought in from other contexts. Thus a strategy or concept often emerges from the here-and-now interactions, not appearing as a whole beforehand.

  9. #79
    Senior Member chachamaru's Avatar
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    There is a Truth out there, because there is a False out there. Binaries are poor analogies to this fact, but it's simple to understand.
    a cat is fine too

  10. #80
    That's my name biotch! JoSunshine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    I used to think that NT's value more truth than NF's. However, my own experience aswell as existing scientific evidence point towards the opposite.

    In my experience, NF's only seem to make small lies to spare people's feelings. However, I wouldn't really consider it lying but more politeness. For example, they might get a gift and if they do not like it, say politely "thank you". In important situations, they are much more likely to speak the truth when they feel the situation is unjust than NT's. I have seen NF's stand up against the status quo and speak the truth to defend someone unfairly treated. As far as scientific evidence goes, "F" correlates with Agreeableness in the Big Five. One of the subfactors of Agreeableness is "Morality", the fact that the person tends to deal straightforwardly with people instead of using manipulation.

    On the other hand, NT's seem to avoid the small lies to spare people's feelings. They might seem more honest at first. My own experience tells me that they are much more likely to cover up the truth if it is in favor of their interests. They may manipulate opinion by arguing in a seemingly logical but invalid way. "T" correlates negatively with Agreeableness, and we can expect T's to score low on "Morality" which means that they have no qualms about distorting the truth to manipulate people. The low Agreeableness might make them seem more honest though because they more readily criticize others.

    These elements bring me to conclude that in appearance NT's value truth more than NF's but when it gets down to the crux it's really the NF's that will be able to speak about the truth even if it is unfavorable to them. NT's may think that they are above their emotions and are faithful to the facts but do not always realize what a role their feelings play and how they can be influenced by them into distorting a situation. For having experience in working in an environment full of NT's, believe me that they are no more honest and straightforward than other people. In fact, they are less so and are very strategic and pragmatic about it. After all, for NT's, the facts are only the facts and reality is malleable. The ones that I have seen speaking the truth that no one dares to mention were the NF's. An INFJ and ENFJ come to mind and these people's way of relating to the external world is through "Extraverted Feeling" - ironically a function that supposedly covers the truth up for other people. In reality, it doesn't.
    I don't know who you are Mavrick, but clearly, you are brilliant

    NF's not caring about the truth is horse shit...that's my honest opinion.
    "Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. " - Dr. Seuss
    I can't spell...get over it

    Slightly ENFJ, totally JoSunshine
    Extroverted (E) 52.5%........Introverted (I) 47.5%
    Intuitive (N) 65.63%..........Sensing (S) 34.38%
    Feeling (F) 55.56%............Thinking (T) 44.44%
    Judging (J) 51.43%............Perceiving (P) 48.57%

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