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Thread: NFs and truth

  1. #61
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    I believe people construct their respective personal truths based on their cumulative experiences. Therefore truth tends to often, if not always be a subjective belief, as opposed to an objective fact.

    Either something was, or was not, is, or is not.

    In my opinion the truth encapsulates everything that has been, as well as everything that is.

  2. #62
    Senior Member wedekit's Avatar
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    I read this entire thread and honestly I had no idea what you people were arguing/debating/whatever about. Then, while doing something else, it dawned on me, and I would say yes I do do this somewhat.

    For example, I believe in the human soul. There is no doubt in my mind we have a soul. If something you say goes against this, no matter how much proof you have I believe in the human soul and so that's that. Do I have solid proof? No. Do I think that weakens my argument against their argument? No.

    Am I on the right track?
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  3. #63
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wedekit View Post
    I read this entire thread and honestly I had no idea what you people were arguing/debating/whatever about. Then, while doing something else, it dawned on me, and I would say yes I do do this somewhat.

    For example, I believe in the human soul. There is no doubt in my mind we have a soul. If something you say goes against this, no matter how much proof you have I believe in the human soul and so that's that. Do I have solid proof? No. Do I think that weakens my argument against their argument? No.

    Am I on the right track?
    having a soul cannot be proven or disproven really.

    i think nocapszy was talking about things that can be empirically proven.

  4. #64
    Senior Member alcea rosea's Avatar
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    I think the truth is subjective and that there is no one truth. So there is no absolute truth there are only different perceptions of truth.

    Wasn't there a thread about truth somewhere in MBTIc? I remember answering to one. There was a good answer about truth there. I don't remember who wrote it.

    Ok, it was this same thread and somebody just brought it back to up. I'm such a scatterminded person.

  5. #65
    Aspie Idealist TaylorS's Avatar
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    (Yes, I know I'm bumping an old thread, so shoot me)

    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade View Post
    I agree with this. I consider myself to be a truth-seeker, but I believe there are many aspects to truth and many pitfalls.

    Rationality is only one aspect of truth. In the logical arena, I suppose many NTs excel. I've been over at INFPgc for about a year and I seem to be more obsessed with debating ideas than most INFPs there. So, my experience is probably far from representative. I'm fairly argumentative for someone who prefers to avoid most conflict. For whatever reason, intellectual conflict inspires me. Then again, INFPs can deeply value anything including rationality.

    The problem with people interested in 'truth' are issues of intellectual honesty and humility. Most NFs I've met are fairly honest and humble about what they don't know. If anything, many NFs are by definition less interested in objective truth because Feeling gives a subjective slant to their thinking. And so the weakness of NFs would be the dismissal of objective rationality. Even so, I supsect NFs are better than NTs at thinking about thinking(ie seeing the subjective motivations and underpinnings of supposed 'rational' thought). In this sense, I think its no accident that it was an INFP that worked out a fairly complex system such as the MBTI.

    NTs are more interested in the structure of thought.
    NFs are more interested in the substance of thought.

    I idealize truth in all of its forms. I appreciate the clarity of thought that many NTs bring to the table, but many NTs are too self-assured in their thinking sometimes to the point of self-righteousness(not to say other types can't also fall prey to this). This annoys me, but not only because it shows a lack of social graces. Too much self-assuredness in rational thought can lead to rationalization and a blindness to other aspects of thought. I've had discussions with a number of NTs where they seemed utterly clueless about the emotional undertow to their own thinking. There is a thin line between rationality being feuled by unconscious motivations and unconscious motivations being rationalized.

    Sometimes, the data and the logic don't speak for themselves. NFs are the masters of meaning which is what gives to ideas a larger and deeper context. NTs too often argue for the sake of arguing, and especially with INTPs this can seem to go nowhere. I've never been fond of intellectual pissing contests.

    Both NFs and NTs are less connected to the realities of Sensation data. The abstractions of rational thought aren't necessarily any more realistic than the abstracting tendencies of NFs. All types see reality partially. NFs only have some advantage in the sense that they're hyper-aware of this paritality(subjective bias).

    NTs are better at finding the distinctions between ideas.
    NFs are better at finding the relationships between ideas.

    NTs are better at analyzing and systematizing mental constructs.
    NFs are better at seeing the context inherent to multiple perspectives.
    I agree completely. A good way to tick me off is by being an intellectually arrogant jerk telling me Theory X or Ideology Y is completely objective and true and anyone who disagrees with them are simply letting their feelings blind them from the truth. Usually it's in the form of a political argument with an NT Libertarian or Marxist bashing my center-left political views for whatever reason.
    Autistic INFP


  6. #66
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TaylorS View Post
    (Yes, I know I'm bumping an old thread, so shoot me)

    I agree completely. A good way to tick me off is by being an intellectually arrogant jerk telling me Theory X or Ideology Y is completely objective and true and anyone who disagrees with them are simply letting their feelings blind them from the truth. Usually it's in the form of a political argument with an NT Libertarian or Marxist bashing my center-left political views for whatever reason.
    You are totally subjective, I belive your feelings towards libertarians blinded you from the truth !
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  7. #67
    Aspie Idealist TaylorS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Now that I read on I see that this is a values vs. reason argument, rather than having anything to do with reality. NTs have values too, they just call them "rights" and argue that they are guaranteed by an abstract, unspoken contract. There is nothing funner than trying to make NTs justify their rights beyond that idea and watching them struggle to come up with a reasonable argument.
    LOL, that reminds me so much of my arguments with NT Libertarians it's funny. What usually happens is a retreat into the "rights are God-Given" intellectual cop-out or a fall into Is-Ought and Appeal-To-Nature fallacies.
    Autistic INFP


  8. #68
    morose bourgeoisie
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    I belive there is just one form of logic. It is a linear, very clear process.

    The trouble is that it is almost impossible to make any logical statement about the truth, without bringing along a lot of your own subjective perspective.
    It may be that NF's ability to synthesize a picture of reality that consciously includes this subjectivity is actually closer to reality than simply positing your truth as objective.

  9. #69
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    I wish the NT would give more specific examples of what makes them believe that NF, espeically NFP ignore "truth."

    You mean like truth such as if you spend too much money your bank account will be overdrawn? If you don't cook a burger to 170 F you may get food posioning?

    Or is it some abstract, unprovable "truth" that the NT wants a particular NFP in their life to accept?

  10. #70
    Aspie Idealist TaylorS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nebbykoo View Post
    I belive there is just one form of logic. It is a linear, very clear process.

    The trouble is that it is almost impossible to make any logical statement about the truth, without bringing along a lot of your own subjective perspective.
    It may be that NF's ability to synthesize a picture of reality that consciously includes this subjectivity is actually closer to reality than simply positing your truth as objective.
    I very much agree. there is no such thing as a truely objective perspective.
    Autistic INFP


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