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  1. #31
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X
    i know what you mean but imo i'm not being inauthentic when i say complimentary things to people at work..if one pose is unflattering and i adjust them and then say that's it perfect...and get a beautiful expression or line...i don't think it's being fake to say so...but it's a mode because i don't usually go around complimenting peoples posture or expressions outside of that.
    Well if you are genuinely meaning it when you say it's perfect after the adjustment, that's not being fake at all. And it has nothing to do with complimenting peoples posture outside of that. You wouldn't do it outside of that, because it wouldn't be "perfect", because perfect only relates to the fact it is now possible to take a good shot. You are not taking shots while not at work.

    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    It's like learning a language, but the words are the same.

    In the computer world, it is sometimes appropriate to use XML, sometimes to use CSV, sometimes to use javascript, sometimes to use java. All of these things do sort of the same thing, but they have different priorities.

    Different social venues have different priorities. You don't change who you are: rather you change your mode of expression and understanding.

    But yeah, it's kind of "rudimentary Fe" so it "feels fake" to us TJs.
    Just to avoid confusion, I'm actually an ENFP.

    And using the programming metaphor, I see flirting as using loopholes in C to get the same result you could get without needing to exploit loopholes in Java.

    If you are genuinely interested in what the other person has to say, you don't need to change modes at all. You just say what's on your mind.

  2. #32
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    Well if you are genuinely meaning it when you say it's perfect after the adjustment, that's not being fake at all. And it has nothing to do with complimenting peoples posture outside of that. You wouldn't do it outside of that, because it wouldn't be "perfect", because perfect only relates to the fact it is now possible to take a good shot. You are not taking shots while not at work.
    I genuinely mean it, but I'm saying it in a "different language".

    Just to avoid confusion, I'm actually an ENFP.

    And using the programming metaphor, I see flirting as using loopholes in C to get the same result you could get without needing to exploit loopholes in Java.

    If you are genuinely interested in what the other person has to say, you don't need to change modes at all. You just say what's on your mind.
    Yeah, I'm not talking about coding hacks. I'm talking about sending XML to the people who want you to send XML, and CSV to the people who want you to send CSV. The info is the same, only the containers and methods of storage/retrieval are different.

  3. #33
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    sexy geek talk you two haha

    see...is that flirty or jokey?
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamine View Post
    1) With these high intensity - low commitment interactions, what is really happening?
    Fun times.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gamine View Post
    2) Is there anything morally wrong with connecting with people on a deep personal/intellectual level and not following up with a relationship of some sort?
    No, it's not wrong. Is it? I don't think so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamine View Post
    2) Is there anything morally wrong with connecting with people on a deep personal/intellectual level and not following up with a relationship of some sort? Would this be better depicted by shades of grey rather than black and white, and if so, how would it be measured?
    Now you're speaking in riddles and you're losing me. Who ever heard of measuring "shades of grey"? It is what it is, "grey".... there's no hard logic to it and I don't see any reason why hard logic would be applied to the types of relationships you described. How does one predefine and plan-out relationship expectations when connecting with people on a deep level?? I don't even know what you're really talkin' about here... so I'd call the whole thing you described pretty grey, yes, yes I do...

  5. #35
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    I genuinely mean it, but I'm saying it in a "different language".



    Yeah, I'm not talking about coding hacks. I'm talking about sending XML to the people who want you to send XML, and CSV to the people who want you to send CSV. The info is the same, only the containers and methods of storage/retrieval are different.
    Well I'm an assembly guy, and there's no bs with me. Get yourself an assembler to try to talk to me, because I lost mine. Or maybe you speak assembly too...and hey awesome! Now I really found someone with whom talking might actually matter.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    sexy geek talk you two haha

    see...is that flirty or jokey?
    It's flirty because it's a joke that has sexual connotations.

  7. #37
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    It's flirty because it's a joke that has sexual connotations.
    haha but what if i was being sarcastic?

    just playin tho i know the difference.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  8. #38
    Allergic to Mornings ergophobe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamine View Post

    To take a previous OP and reword it into a different structure:

    Situation:

    There are types (or just people) who love connecting with people. These connections can be created through something deeply emotional (skipping smalltalk and jumping straight into something more personal) or devastatingly intellectual (gosh, ideas are sexy, aren't they?).

    Questions:

    1) With these high intensity - low commitment interactions, what is really happening?
    Great question. I think a number of things could be going on. The most common though, in my opinion, is a misjudging by both sides. One side misjudges the investment as greater than the others and vice versa. ENPs are most susceptible to these because we crave/need that intensity. It fuels Ne. For ENFPs, it's an intellectual+emotional connection, for ENTPs it tends to lean more on the intellectual end. It must also involve a jumping in without much pause for introspection to cause the kind of damage hinted at in the OP.

    2) Is there anything morally wrong with connecting with people on a deep personal/intellectual level and not following up with a relationship of some sort? Would this be better depicted by shades of grey rather than black and white, and if so, how would it be measured?
    There is nothing inherently wrong (moral judgment) about any connection. I think the moral part comes in regarding the judging of intentions (to hurt/protect/level of awareness) and consequences (was any one hurt in a way that could have been avoided). What could have been done to make the situation and expectations clearer for both? Most of the time, being an ENFP and relying on good intentions, people mean well but misjudge the interest and get carried away by curiosity.
    I would consider it unethical to misrepresent one's intentions knowingly to manipulate a response for selfish reasons or to be inconsiderate of the other person's level of investment and not slow down or clarify the situation when this becomes clear.

    3) How is this being perceived by the stakeholders in this situation? (The person who is seeking and creating these interactions, the person being interacted with).
    Unclear and too many possibilities. For the creator, ranges from low interest (pure manipulation/curiosity) to high interest (genuine). For the perceiver, high investment to low investment,

    4) How can we build a shared vocabulary and social construct to deal with the confusion the consequences of these missed communications create? How can someone set up boundaries to make it clear to others what they are willing and unwilling to participate in?
    This language or shared vocabulary already exists. I'll give two examples:
    Friendship:
    When I was younger, I'd call everyone a friend in real life because it was a friendly thing to do. Now I won't. I'll only do that, especially in person, if I genuinely consider the person a friend. Be aware that terms come with expectations from both sides and be careful about using the terms frivolously.
    Romance:
    We all know how to express clearly when we're interested in a long term prospect and when we're interested in a fling. On a rare occasion, a fling may turn into more. I've stated this clearly in the past and have found people accept or reject what I present but at least they do it in an informed manner. They may even be offended if the offer was for less but at least they've done so in advance instead of feeling that they've been manipulated.

    5) Is there value in these sudden, seemingly more personally invested, interactions? Should we condition those around us to stop engaging in them for the sake of self-protectionism?
    Why? There's value in almost all human interactions. Today, at the doctor's office, I had a fascinating exchange with someone who gave me a bunch of ideas for my work. The exchange was mutually beneficial. Sometimes, a simple, intense interaction is a great mood lifter. A fling could be just the antidote for a difficult period...whatever. These are all valuable goals in themselves.

  9. #39
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Two modes of flirting...

    1.) If in a particularly good and light-hearted mood, I'll flirt with women and men alike whom I deem "good", i.e. if while in this mood I interact with someone who has a good heart, and this can be just a faint vibe I get, but our interaction is brief, I'll attempt to connect via common conceptions of flirting, and I don't feel sorry for this one bit, it puts a smile on these people's faces, and perhaps even makes their day, so yeah!

    2.) I flirt with people I am genuinely interested in... who doesn't?

    Oh, I guess there's a three for which I am ashamed because it totally goes against my Fi vibes....

    3.) I do attempt to flirt my way out of tickets or getting in trouble with the po-9. Does that make me evil?!

    (I actually wrote an essay about one of my encounters with the po-lice, I flirted my way out of a ticket and this cop had the audacity to hit on me, and give me his business card, and say other relatively vulgar things, part of me wanted to call the po-lice department and report this guy, but then I got scared, I also kinda felt like a cheap whore, had this man been anyone else but a po-lice officer I would've let him have it!!! :sad: + :steam: )
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  10. #40
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    I did not emo-interact with people until about 26. I used Fe to hide or Te to block.

    Then I was just Ne silly with very subtle emo tinges for a few years. In the past few years I have learned how to glow at other Fi users like a little kid and it makes them happier. They are so sad sometimes. Only in the last year have I tried to connect with others via a real emotional connection.

    I have all this emotion but it is like magma. I cant control it very well so I try and build Te rules all around it and very carefully move in stages and give lots of forewarning. I try and be very honest and open so i dont surprise people. 99% of the time I just quell it with Te.

    It is like the emotion of a child. Blue Monday (May god rest her soul now lost on the interweb) once asked why I sometimes sound grown up and intelligent and sometimes sound infantile. The infantile posts are when I let my emotions show. The emotions are very pure, very innocent, ridiculously so, niave, totally unsophisticated. When I feel emotions they are intense, passionate, and incinerating. They are overwhelming and would drown another person. Love, anger, pain, they are all very simplistic and unrefined.

    To be totally open would be to allow someone to see those emotions and not be afraid of them or shun me because of them. To accept me for what I am.

    When I say "love" it means simply an emo connection. It means I allow my emotions to be open and I mirror your happiness and pain and put it above my own. I love many of my coworkers but in a diffuse glowing way-but it is very real, very authentic, very protective, very childlike. I will seriously fuck up anyone who messes with them.

    I love my entp best friend very much. We have both decided to reattach to our workplace emotionally and intellectually. I am now her "Crazy-ass-emo-ADHD-ENTJ-wannabe" sidekick. I buy her flowers on sundays at the playground and I buy her presents when I go on trips. We also get in crazy arguments over the workplace except we have them in jungian terminology so everyone thinks we are crazy.

    I have a few people here that though I have never met them I feel about them like I feel about my entp.

    Fi is that of a four year old child. It cant accurately understand what is the right response or who to trust emotions to. It just understand a very simple rule-dont hurt people. I get so confused when my feelings get hurtor see people hurt each other. "why would someone do that?" "Why would someone ever intentionally hurt another person?"

    I have tons of resolution in Te. There are endless shades of gray in how I apply it everyday and I feel very confident in those choices.

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