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  1. #1
    Senior Member pyramid's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Splitting the ATOM, er, ENFP: narrowing the gap between duality

    I was inspired by this thread ENFP- Ne Reading Into Things

    I feel that perhaps based on early conditions or further natural preferences ENFPs can have a more or less social approach to their people-loving.

    Assuming we have Ne right away, the statements about needing to gather info and the correlating accuracy are pretty dead on: we have to do some catching up/work to figure out why it's there for us and to get it operating to its full potential.

    Ideally in my ENFP world all decisions would be made with 50% feeling, 50% known information. Considering further, you have to be able to pick out the useful half of info/feelings out of the total available and therefore it's best to have the full 100% on hand for reference and reassurance. (Motivation for constant bettering!)

    The focus for improvement depends if you have a more developed tangible or abstract side (think social politics vs nature). Note that these are still humanistic categories that just lean to one side or the other. I love them equally but I do have an innate lust for the mysterious EVERYWHERE (it's cute, when I was young I loathed high fantasy and found it stubbornly improbable... now I'm all about anything being possible ). I think it has something to do with how comfortable or skilled you are at logically describing your Fi, and in which context mostly. Do you relate your feelings to those that other people have or what other sentient things possess? Also how well you can apply it to what's relevant?

    Do you read others dominantly from the inside out or outside-in?

    All this being said, I make sure to do my homework before making more time to meditate. The latter is easier for me, so addressing the former is more beneficial.

    Perhaps the enneagram works well for analyzing this further!

    Please share your view
    PURE LOVE ENFP. IEE. 9w1 (0). Saggitarius. Jupiter! FIRE!

    ~It is only the benevolent man who is capable of liking or disliking other men.
    - Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.
    ~Only the wisest and stupidest of men never change.
    - Learn as though you would never be able to master it; hold it as though you would be in fear of losing it.

  2. #2
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Is this the thread you mean?
    Hmm.. I'll come back to it. I have had no sleep.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  3. #3
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyramid View Post
    Assuming we have Ne right away, the statements about needing to gather info and the correlating accuracy are pretty dead on: we have to do some catching up/work to figure out why it's there for us and to get it operating to its full potential.

    The focus for improvement depends if you have a more developed tangible or abstract side (think social politics vs nature). Note that these are still humanistic categories that just lean to one side or the other. I love them equally but I do have an innate lust for the mysterious EVERYWHERE (it's cute, when I was young I loathed high fantasy and found it stubbornly improbable... now I'm all about anything being possible ). I think it has something to do with how comfortable or skilled you are at logically describing your Fi, and in which context mostly. Do you relate your feelings to those that other people have or what other sentient things possess? Also how well you can apply it to what's relevant?

    Do you read others dominantly from the inside out or outside-in?
    My Fi is a wee bit defective. I actually wanted to start a thread about it and values, but maybe later

    I can use NeTe to find patterns in just about anything. This works really well on abstract problems or nonpeople related problems. Exceptional for very complex situations where I need to tease out trends. Very high failure rate-I'd say 20% of the time the pattern is null, but 80% of the time it is valid and other people cant always see it. Knowing this high potential for failure, I extensively cross check back against historical patterns observed, then seek relevant Si data to back up the prediction. Many times I throw my function patterns out here just to see if anybody bites. I really seek Ti feedback whenever possible and endlessly rework ideas if new data contradicts the old model.

    I cannot in any way trust my Ne-Fi judgments.

    Ne-Fi tells me "EVERYONE HATES YOU AND YOU ARE A FAILURE." or "THEY WERE MEAN TO YOU AND ARE THUS EVIL". Fi uses the metrics of a small child to judge the other person and they are overly simplistic. I watch these thoughts pop up, then Te-Si steps in and goes, "Whoa, settle down and quit getting so upset. Did they hate you in the past? No. Does it matter if people dont like you? No. Just keep moving, we have stuff to do" I often roll my eyes at myself over the internal recognition of the Ne-ing of Fi. (Well until I have a massive emo breakdown and melt into irrational emo spews...)

    The bolded part in your post-I think this is why ENFPs externalize. Its why we bitch, moan, complain, have emo spews and fits of externalized anger. I think we are seeking affirmation aka calibration of that Fi response we just generated. Udog once said the emo isnt Fi-its what you decide to do based upon the emo you are feeling? (Hell I dont know WTF I'm talking about here.)

    Is it okay that I feel this way in this situation?
    Was my reaction okay or over the top or too limited?
    Was my judgment of this situation too black or white?

    We seek feedback from our peers-enfps-to let us know if our response was okay.

    Once i figured this out suddenly it was really easy to work with other enfps. "Man, that sucks, I would feel the same way, maybe next time you could do this instead." It's like magic and ends the tweakiness.

    I dont know how to apply this to myself though to grow Fi. I cant just go emo crazy so I can learn by trial and error. I am behind the ball. My emo capacity is very small and can be overwhelming and my Fi cannot effectively analyze the emo when under massive pressure.

    (Based on ENXP symmetry I'd suggest the entps are doing something similar-perhaps the endless debating serves as little trials to help calibrate Ti? This would suggest that maybe we could grow Fi by giving it lots of little trials to work on and learn from. This might start by just describing how I feel-which is horrifically mortifying for me-even in written form.)

  4. #4
    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    I cannot understand what this question is asking but I am very interested in understanding the question (and therefore the responses).

  5. #5
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    I cannot understand what this question is asking but I am very interested in understanding the question (and therefore the responses).
    I can't either I just assumed it was due to lack of sleep haha
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  6. #6
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Hey P, I hope you dont get super pissed but I applied some Te to your post and tried to pull out the questions you are getting at-they are really interesting thoughts btw. I bolded them but I could have totally f'ed them up so just post so in big letters if I did. Pup.

    Quote Originally Posted by pyramid View Post
    I was inspired by this thread ENFP- Ne Reading Into Things

    I feel that perhaps based on early conditions or further natural preferences ENFPs can have a more or less social approach to their people-loving.

    1. Do you think that your early life has helped shaped how strongly you connect to others around you? Did it help you connect t more people, more easily or less people, more carefully?


    Assuming we have Ne right away, the statements about needing to gather info and the correlating accuracy are pretty dead on: we have to do some catching up/work to figure out why it's there for us and to get it operating to its full potential.

    Ideally in my ENFP world all decisions would be made with 50% feeling, 50% known information. Considering further, you have to be able to pick out the useful half of info/feelings out of the total available and therefore it's best to have the full 100% on hand for reference and reassurance. (Motivation for constant bettering!)

    2. How do you know that the value based gut feeling you have is correct? Is it sometimes wrong? Have you seen it grow or change over time?

    The focus for improvement depends if you have a more developed tangible or abstract side (think social politics vs nature). Note that these are still humanistic categories that just lean to one side or the other. I love them equally but I do have an innate lust for the mysterious EVERYWHERE (it's cute, when I was young I loathed high fantasy and found it stubbornly improbable... now I'm all about anything being possible ). I think it has something to do with how comfortable or skilled you are at logically describing your Fi, and in which context mostly.

    3. I sense a hyperactive Ne buddy!! Do you find yourself endlessly curious about everything around you? My own thought-Does that curiosity help or hinder how we grow over time? If we always seek the new, we never stop to look at we is in our hands already.

    4.Do you relate your feelings to those that other people have or what other sentient things possess? Also how well you can apply it to what's relevant?

    Do you read others dominantly from the inside out or outside-in?

    5. I think-Do you read and predict their behavior based upon what you externally observe them doing and patterns from the past-a Te approach maybe? Or do you observe and predict what they will do based upon what you internally feel-Fi?

    All this being said, I make sure to do my homework before making more time to meditate. The latter is easier for me, so addressing the former is more beneficial.

    Perhaps the enneagram works well for analyzing this further!

    Please share your view

  7. #7
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    i think my early life did shape how easily i relate to others...i grew up with two nf hippie parents....don't remember rules really except...always be nice...treat people with respect...live and let live...be inclusive...be honest...those sorts of things...people liked me and i liked them...always felt accepted and never afraid to be myself...say what i thought...even when it was ridiculous it just made people laugh...

    so as an adult...i will just arrogantly admit that i just assume people like me as much as i like them...i am not afraid to express views because why would someone not appreciate hearing them as much as i would hearing theirs...i think i believe things are always equal...mutual...i think i project...i believe most people are genuinely good and if they're not...i believe it's for a reason that was not their fault...i blame the reason and not them...i accept others and expect to be accepted...

    i think i was getting off track...but yeah i think my upbringing shaped those views and effect how i relate to others.

    edit: just realized i don't think i even answered the questions. :/
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  8. #8
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    I probably had the opposite childhood of Lady X - not that my parents weren't very loving and supportive, but they just tended to place more value on T and J. I guess in the end it might have made me more well-rounded or at least versatile, MAYBE, but also a little bit confused. Or a lot confused, I am realizing.

    As for developing my Ne, I guess I didn't really question it as much as the F or the P growing up. I think it actually is somehow how I did so well in school. I don't know. I guess I just learned to trust it pretty early on and continue to learn to use it more and more accurately. I don't know if I'm at the point of evaluating it in terms of Fi or not. I think I might jump around between lots of different functions in lots of different contexts, but I still don't know enough about the different functions to accurately describe it in MBTI terminology.

    Pyramid, what exactly do you mean by the focus for improvement?

    And what do you mean by the mysterious? I get this sense with your posts a lot that you are hinting at things that I vaguely but strongly relate to, but cannot quite articulate...

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