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  1. #51
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    You two seem great together. Actually, that would be my ideal relationship. Living apart 5 days out of 7. Only doing fun stuff together. He might be reluctant to give that up.

    What I wonder, is: could the N in the INTP means that from a young age they are able to sense when something isn't right or if people are asking something of them, but without the strong F they don't often 'know' instinctively how to deliver on that.
    Our N isn't usually directed towards people, but towards ideas. If we focus on people it's more from a problem-solving perspective and for a discrete period of time. The person as a system.
    So we can be objectively intuitive about people and their problems, but that's a far cry from the NF personal approach.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  2. #52
    movin melodies kiddykat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine8 View Post
    I don't think I have ever felt this bad before. In so many ways 'on paper' my life is great. But this pain is dreadful. Why can't I just be more TTTTT??!!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Salt n' pepper View Post
    Don't try to turn yourself into a human pretzel. You'll regret it, and eventually the truth will unfold. So if you're looking for long-term with him, I say straight-shooting all the way.

    You care deeply for him, I can tell. He must have done something to deserve that. So chill a bit. I'm sure with better communication and understanding (and information), you'll be just fine. If not, there are plenty of fish in the C
    Wise words.

    Perhaps it would help to assess what your needs/wants are as well as his? If they match up, then great. Be honest though. If the two of you do wind up moving in together, there still has to be some kind of communication, especially if the interaction is on a daily basis, no?

    To give him a fair chance, at least let him know about your concerns? It still may work out in the end. Btw- my step-dad is an ISTP (confirmed), who is very attentive towards my mom. So maybe give him a little nudge? Best of luck.

  3. #53
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    I felt rather starved out myself, sunshine, though I chalk it up to the particular guy I was dating and not the whole type.

    When I felt ignored or neglected, I blew smoke up his skirt. Before we started dating, the INTP would literally flee from me which I found frustrating and off-putting. I could never get him to talk to me for long because he was always dashing off like a scared rabbit.

    So I began leaving lipstick kisses on the driver's window of his (meticulously clean) car. He never caught me doing it, and there was a new one every day, next to the ones before it, in different shades. I noticed the car stopped being washed. When he found out the kisses were from me, he blushed violently and told me he would never wash the car again.

    There are ways of getting someone's attention and have them acknowledge you without going to extremes. Though Digest had a good idea... lol
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
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  4. #54
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    The flip side to the low need for contact is that INTPs are generally low-maintenance, so your time is your own to play with and to enjoy. It's not so fun in the early stages, but you only have to see a woman whose husband won't give her a moment's peace to appreciate a nice, easy going INTP.
    Great point, cafe.

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    I can tell you from experience that it sucks to always feel like the needier party. It makes you hover more, or get emotional, both of which are going to annoy the other person and make them less likely to ante up with what you need. T types are always going to be able to feel more detached than you. Introverted T types are also going to be fine without a whole lot of regular contact and don't see why you can't do the same.
    Agree with the first sentence. BUT. T types do not always feel more detached! As someone who has dated introverts, this is not the case! I often have the more palpable need to feel "attached". Maybe this is why Edgar thinks I am ENFP. I dunno.

    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    I'm sorry to say this, but it doesn't sound like the makings for a good, healthy ltr. Unless you were going to become poly or something and have your needs met by someone else, that are lacking from your INTP. It just shouldn't be that hard at the beginning. It should be easy now, for it WILL get hard later.
    It's only hard because they live 2 hours away. I doubt it would be this way otherwise. Or at least, it seems likely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Domino View Post
    So I began leaving lipstick kisses on the driver's window of his (meticulously clean) car. He never caught me doing it, and there was a new one every day, next to the ones before it, in different shades. I noticed the car stopped being washed. When he found out the kisses were from me, he blushed violently and told me he would never wash the car again.
    An INTP with a clean car? Sounds suspicious as all get out.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  5. #55
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    An INTP with a clean car? Sounds suspicious as all get out.

    Red flag number one, perhaps.
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  6. #56
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino View Post
    Red flag number one, perhaps.
    I've yet to meet an INTP with a clean car, house, etc. Well, INTP females are likely different. My INTP friend doesn't even notice if I hide things from him.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  7. #57
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    You two seem great together. Actually, that would be my ideal relationship. Living apart 5 days out of 7. Only doing fun stuff together. He might be reluctant to give that up.


    .
    Great from his perspective. But if an NF is feeling the need to bond, and bond often, it's doubtful she's going to be able to be content in that. Unless she is truly able to look at the time away from him as a way to connect and do things with others to get what she needs; but usually appreciating that concept comes with life experience, and time, maturity, etc. It's very hard to accept that in the throes of new love, as sensical as it sounds.

    To the OP: As an Fe dom, you are driven to connect with others. Have you given much thought to the notion that others might be able to fill the gap left from your INTP? I don't necessarily mean in a romantic way, but would it be rewarding for you to use groups or work or other means to satisfy you while your INTP keeps his space? Is it difficult for an Fe dom to count on just one person to meet the majority of his or her needs? Is that fraught with peril? Is it a situation that others find difficult because it hard to live up to the Fe dom's needs and standards and ideals? I'm just questionning the prudence of an Fe dom expecting to be fulfilled in a monogamous relationship period, much less with an INTP who craves their space. I'm curious about that..........
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

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  8. #58
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Sunshine you've gotten some good advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    Great from his perspective. But if an NF is feeling the need to bond, and bond often, it's doubtful she's going to be able to be content in that. Unless she is truly able to look at the time away from him as a way to connect and do things with others to get what she needs; but usually appreciating that concept comes with life experience, and time, maturity, etc. It's very hard to accept that in the throes of new love, as sensical as it sounds.
    I agree with this. I so often feel like a Debbie Downer, but I'll just say it anyway. You tell him what's up, he's receptive and agrees to increase how often you contact each other. So now you see him on the weekend and you make some type of contact during the week. I just wonder how much of a stretch it would be for him to increase his efforts of contact and how long he can sustain it without it feeling like "work" to him and put a strain in the relationship that wasn't there before.

    A bit of the greatness of this relationship is precisely because you all only hang out on the weekends. You try to make that time as rich and meaningful as possible, you're ignoring and stuffing your feelings those other times. He's in his comfort zone, but you're out of yours. And you wanting to bring more equality in the comfort zones leaves you feeling needy and clingy. I really hate those words because I feel like (at least on the forum), they're leveled at Fe-doms (IxFJs get somewhat of a pass because they're introverted) as a way of discounting our needs. "You're just making excessive demands on people's time."

    When I see people constantly texting their SOs, calling each other 4 and 5 times and day, I'm like whoa that's a bit much. In my most attentive relationship, we'd meet up for lunch twice a week because we were on the same side of campus and go out on Saturday night. When semesters changed, we still saw each other twice a week, go out Saturday and occasionally study together on Sunday. We didn't talk on the phone that much, although we would instant message if we were both on our computers. I personally felt satisfied with that and I didn't hear any complaints.

    I'm a huge proponent of not making your SO your whole life. Keep your friends, keep doing the things that made you feel fulfilled before you got into the relationship. Sunshine, I don't know what type of activities you engage in outside of your relationship so it is good advice to not let your SO be your primary connective outlet.

    Is it difficult for an Fe dom to count on just one person to meet the majority of his or her needs? Is that fraught with peril? Is it a situation that others find difficult because it hard to live up to the Fe dom's needs and standards and ideals? I'm just questionning the prudence of an Fe dom expecting to be fulfilled in a monogamous relationship period, much less with an INTP who craves their space. I'm curious about that..........
    I think this part is actually where Fe doms get into a lot of trouble. I've seen more complaints that people can never tell if one is just "being nice" or if there's a more meaningful attachment. I have different friend groups because I have different needs. I have my inner circle, I have my go out and party friends, I have my talk about stuff friends, but not necessarily do anything friends, I have my specific activity friends. I get passed around a lot, lol.

    In a romantic relationship, there are some needs that the person is going to have to meet because friends can't necessarily meet them. Certain physical and emotional needs, intimacy needs. Your SO often sees parts of you your friends don't see because being in a relationship brings out those parts. I don't get upset if I have no contact with a friend for a month, but that would not be the case with a SO.

    Aphrodite, Domino has mentioned this Pleasant Acquaintance Containment Room, where you put the people you genuinely like, enjoy their time and company, and are cool with but not necessarily in the inner circle. The inner circle is actually not the most pleasant place to be with a Fe dom I think. There's a lot of turbulence and padded walls in that place that I know I don't want other people to see and be exposed to. The people that are there are there because they're very highly trusted, valued, and have shown that they don't blink. There are many worries, anxieties, and insecurities in this particular room as opposed to the PACR where you have a 50-inch HD flat screen TV, fully stocked bar, theater, and gourmet chef around to whip up the best nachos you've ever had.

    I guess most people do this to some extent. I wonder how many people have Fe dom friends that don't realize they in the circle and feel like their Fe dom is very panicky and needy. So to respond to the latter half of your question, I know for me there is a higher expectation for people in the circle that can come across as excessive. This is why I try as best as I know how to let these people know they are appreciated and what their friendship means to me...there's a special trust there that isn't with others and I'm extremely grateful to them for "putting up" with me in that way. I take other people's temperatures so much more often than I take my own and it's nice to have a place where you don't have to worry about that.

    Yesterday I was out with two friends and one was circle and the other wasn't. The vein of conversation the circle friend and I were on wasn't necessarily Friday night drinking and forget about the week convo. The other friend told us we were ruining her buzz. I felt a twinge inside and thought to myself this is why I like her more than I like you and this is why you'll never get any further than where you are. Not that it matters to her, but it does matter to me.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
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  9. #59
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    When I see people constantly texting their SOs, calling each other 4 and 5 times and day, I'm like whoa that's a bit much. In my most attentive relationship, we'd meet up for lunch twice a week because we were on the same side of campus and go out on Saturday night. When semesters changed, we still saw each other twice a week, go out Saturday and occasionally study together on Sunday. We didn't talk on the phone that much, although we would instant message if we were both on our computers. I personally felt satisfied with that and I didn't hear any complaints.

    See now, I would have thought that's how an Fe dom would be in a relationship; at least a new one. But you're saying not really. I wonder how much that changes with age? I bet needing your mate closer to you depends to some degree on how old you are when you get together. Do you feel like you've always been this way, or is a learned thing over time? I know when I was younger, I wanted my bf there 24/7. But I'm not like that anymore.


    Aphrodite, Domino has mentioned this Pleasant Acquaintance Containment Room, where you put the people you genuinely like, enjoy their time and company, and are cool with but not necessarily in the inner circle. The inner circle is actually not the most pleasant place to be with a Fe dom I think. There's a lot of turbulence and padded walls in that place that I know I don't want other people to see and be exposed to. The people that are there are there because they're very highly trusted, valued, and have shown that they don't blink. There are many worries, anxieties, and insecurities in this particular room as opposed to the PACR where you have a 50-inch HD flat screen TV, fully stocked bar, theater, and gourmet chef around to whip up the best nachos you've ever had.

    I guess most people do this to some extent. I wonder how many people have Fe dom friends that don't realize they in the circle and feel like their Fe dom is very panicky and needy. So to respond to the latter half of your question, I know for me there is a higher expectation for people in the circle that can come across as excessive. This is why I try as best as I know how to let these people know they are appreciated and what their friendship means to me...there's a special trust there that isn't with others and I'm extremely grateful to them for "putting up" with me in that way. I take other people's temperatures so much more often than I take my own and it's nice to have a place where you don't have to worry about that.

    Yesterday I was out with two friends and one was circle and the other wasn't. The vein of conversation the circle friend and I were on wasn't necessarily Friday night drinking and forget about the week convo. The other friend told us we were ruining her buzz. I felt a twinge inside and thought to myself this is why I like her more than I like you and this is why you'll never get any further than where you are. Not that it matters to her, but it does matter to me.
    Makes good sense. So, it's just important that an Fe dom understands that she/he will probably have more complex relational needs than a s.o. can meet, and that that's okay and good. I definitely see this in my esfj friend. She was engaged 3 times before her successful marriage to her ISTP in her late 30's. She goes her own way most of the time, as does he, but they are very happy in that.

    I do the bolded too. People have to pass the tests.
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  10. #60
    Senior Member lunalove's Avatar
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    My husband is an INTJ and I'm ENFP. It's tough! However...his need for space helps me go inside and learn to love and trust myself.

    I definitely agree that you should speak to him and let him know how you feel. My husband prefers if I am to the point as much as possible when I talk to him. I often write things down or write him a letter and pick out the mail points to share with him (or just give him the letter!) If you ever want to talk about his need for space, etc. feel free to PM me. It's not easy, but with open communication and both of you willing to grow and meet one another half way, this sounds like it will be a healthy and long-term relationship!

    Good luck...you're in my thoughts! ((hugs))

    luna~

    p.s. You are in no wayy pathetic...your feelings are beautiful and sensitive and simply...perfect :-)

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