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  1. #41
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    it seems pretty clear she loathes having those negative feelings of envy and resentment and isn't trying to foster them, and specifically was asking how to change herself to better understand and accommodate his needs.

    *shrug*

    Relationships don't work unless they work for both people.
    I don't think she is trying to foster those feelings. I just wonder why a rant like that gets followed by a comment like:

    Quote Originally Posted by yvonne View Post
    aww. you seem like a really nice person.
    And further ranting about how IxTPs suck in relationships. He sounds like a nice guy to me and she sounds like she's gonna blow it with the cringeful neediness.

    Fe. I'm never gonna understand it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  2. #42
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    Why must Fs be attracted to the very qualities that they find so repellent?
    I don't think you were necessarily addressing me, but I want to make this point. I have IxTP immediate family members. My particular observations are from the POV of being in a family together, which requires a different kind of relating. If this was an ENFJ having difficulties with her relationship with her INTP father, it's tougher to navigate because of the factors particular to a familial relationship. I think the distance in a parent/child relationship would be unwarranted. ETA: It wouldn't be "cringeful neediness" it would be an mentally and emotionally absent father. I can see some serious daddy issues down the line. So my point in all this wasn't a bitchfest towards IxTPs, just that I've had similar experiences with them as family.

    This of course depends on what type of ideas and expectations people have on how family works. Some people view their romantic relationships as their primary relationships, whereas I view my family relationships just as important as romantic ones...that bond will always be there. I am naturally more tolerant of family members who will always be my blood and will almost always get the benefit of the doubt and the extra effort vs. a relationship that I can leave if it's too much work to relate.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
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  3. #43
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    ^I read your posts and I don't think they are characteristic of IxTPs. I'm not like that with my family, or anyone I love. Nor are any of the IxTPs I know - all devoted to their families.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  4. #44
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I don't think you were necessarily addressing me, but I want to make this point. I have IxTP immediate family members. My particular observations are from the POV of being in a family together, which requires a different kind of relating. If this was an ENFJ having difficulties with her relationship with her INTP father, it's tougher to navigate because of the factors particular to a familial relationship. I think the distance in a parent/child relationship would be unwarranted.

    This of course depends on what type of ideas and expectations people have on how family works. Some people view their romantic relationships as their primary relationships, whereas I view my family relationships just as important as romantic ones...that bond will always be there. I am naturally more tolerant of family members who will always be my blood and will almost always get the benefit of the doubt and the extra effort vs. a relationship that I can leave if it's too much work to relate.
    I've noticed this concept too. Some seem to invest more in their primary relationships, and some more in their blood relationships (siblings, children, parents). I find it fascinating and am curious what motivates each type of behavior. I am more in the aforementioned group, but I was not close to my family growing up (and was adopted as well). Friends who fall in the second group don't have as good a bond with their s.o., yet put a LOT of energy into the blood relationships, more than in their 'primary' relationship, and were very close to their families growing up.


    Edit: i am not relating this to type at all.
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  5. #45
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    ....He sounds like a nice guy to me and she sounds like she's gonna blow it with the cringeful neediness. Fe. I'm never gonna understand it.
    yeah, she sounds like she values him (lots of glowy stuff she refers to) because aside from this "distance" issue he's doing a lot of good things; and I would be very cautious about dumping the contents of this thread on him directly because frankly it might easily be over-emo-whelming.

    One doesn't want to destroy a good thing by overfretting about an aspect that can be fixed.

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    ... I find INFPs are actually a lot more emotionally self-contained.
    Yeah, I think a lot of that agonizing happens internally. The ones I know in real life almost don't say enough, they're afraid of dumping their stuff on others. I have to literally sometimes invite them to be more open... and then I get some of it... and often it's STILL restrained.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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  6. #46
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    i'd advise sending naughty pics to his email around the middle of the week.
    This (above) is a good primer.

    I could imagine you framing the initial OP post to an INTP male and him watching your lips move but the volume in his head would almost fall to zero.

    We, or admittedly myself (although I have gotten 'better'), can be very oblivious in relationships. Maybe if you break it down to the most simple dynamics and pragmatics as if you were talking to an ISTP about their car.

    1. I am different than you.
    a. where you don't need A,B, and C I need it.
    b. If I don't get A,B, and C I will have to go and find somebody else.
    c. If I go I still cant have sex with you.
    d. If I do get A,B and C I can stay.
    e. Will you give me A, B and C (or a close proximity expect him to see if he can hold off and maybe ask a little more at the beginning so it will seem like a compromise)
    f. Close with "I got to go right now, think about it for a bit and get back to me." (INTP hate to be cornered with these types of ultimatums and forced judgment/commitment thereon, don't let him just surrender (the 'INTP false surrender') because it will mean less. Rather set up a time/date for a follow up closure on the issue. If he looks anxious when you leave him to dwell on it you did it right)

    PS. Rightfully or wrongfully understand a lot of this underlying neediness is about you and most INTPs are low maintenance and do better with mates who are low maintenance. So maybe its better to read the the writing on the wall and act accordingly for the long run.
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
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  7. #47
    Member Sunshine8's Avatar
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    Default Thanks for the feedback - makes a lot of sense

    Thank you so much to everyone who wrote.

    Even those who were critical - all sides are good to hear.

    I agree with the importance of trying to be honest about my needs without getting too clingy or emotional about it. The idea of sitting down and working out how best to tackle this is an interesting suggestion - my first recourse is to think about how I can change myself to fit what he wants rather than to change or even really commence 'tactics'.

    In my brain I can say to myself 'you know he loves you, chill out' but because it seems to come naturally for me to want to do nice things for him, it seems to point the other way (as in that he musn't really care) when he has his nutty professor hat on and doesn't think to do them for me. This would be most of Mon-Fri.

    So much of what you all wrote have given me a more positive perspective. I still do like the idea of a support group though! The things an INTP brings to a relationship are so precious, but it can sometimes feel like balls of the most rich pate, for which you can eat to a point but sometimes you need a chicken leg. Mostly though, we are very happy. I also suspect that the distance thing is particularly bad for a relationship with an INTP. It makes it too easy for him to bury himself in multiple episodes of Farscape!

    So what is so fascinating about the INTP to this ENFJ?

    *The unconventional side of the INTP. Happy to dress up in weird clothes or go against the mainstream. Kindred spirits!

    *They can say 'no' to a barbeque if they don't want to go.

    *Passion: He can seems to be so calm, but when we talk politics and literature-he is so passionate! We can argue about ideas.

    *He gives a shit about what is happening in the world - although mainly on the big picture level. So while he won't be fully switched on to what is happening in his own life, he will be very aware of the political climate etc. Which is great because I study politics!

    *Being with an INTP I feel that I an expand and grow. I don't feel I have to subscribe to a certain way of being - he is not going to expect me to be home every night with a frilly apron on.

    *I can love my INTP while still having a good amount of time (and emotional energy!) to have other significant friendships and relationships with family. I haven't had a single comment along the lines of 'you never have any time for me anymore' etc that can sometimes be said by family/friends when you get into a relationship.

    *And there is the personal time spent together. It is like being two kids in a cave with a flashlight, or out on a trail seeing where it would go.

    *I really need my quality time alone, and I definitely get that with my INTP. In my other relationships (such as friendships, and when I was growing up wth my family) it is mostly me who has had the higher need for solitude, because I was often the 'fixer' or 'helper'. That is probably why it feels a bit humiliating to seem this needy! I am trying to change this, and I guess I have found quite a hole in my self-esteem. Any suggestions on how to tackle this one would be really appreciated. I love my solitude, but too much time away from my SO and my feelings start to change ie: .:confused: then or I for the hills. I have also unfortunately in a past relationship run into the arms of someone else, which is no solution at all. I want to change this pattern.



    *he can, at times, be incredibly perceptive about the emotional state of another person who is not being obvious about it. It is nearly always with someone who he isn't particularly close to. He has commented about someone in a very deep way when I haven't even noticed their state. I like being wrong sometimes! I admire his delicacy that way. It is very attractive!

    *He has a strong sense of right and wrong. So even though he bucks the establishment on whether or not to attend family gatherings, etc, deep down, the sound ethics are there. I know that if anything happened to me, he would be there in a significant and concrete way. I admire that.

    Philosophical question

    What I wonder, is: could the N in the INTP means that from a young age they are able to sense when something isn't right or if people are asking something of them, but without the strong F they don't often 'know' instinctively how to deliver on that.

    When you couple that with the 'impending doom/fear of failure' which is supposed to be an INTP undercurrent, should it be that surprising that too many 'social' needs = feelings of pressure and discomfort, fear of not being able to deliver? I also suspect that many INTPs had very strong mothers (smothers?) What are people's thoughts on this?

    Man, I only wish I could make my heart and feelings follow my head instead of the other way around!

    Being an NF is a little like having the window to your unconscious permanently stuck open, and so to try to make life a bit more comfortable you pull across the curtains...but when the wind blows...
    Sunshine8

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    - Caskie Stinnett

  8. #48
    Pose! Salt n' pepper's Avatar
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    So make it easy for him to succeed in "pleasing you". Tell him what you want. If he cares, he'll be happy to oblige, and quite grateful you've already done half the work.

    Don't try to turn yourself into a human pretzel. You'll regret it, and eventually the truth will unfold. So if you're looking for long-term with him, I say straight-shooting all the way.

    You care deeply for him, I can tell. He must have done something to deserve that. So chill a bit. I'm sure with better communication and understanding (and information), you'll be just fine. If not, there are plenty of fish in the C

  9. #49
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    If I'm in the middle of things I could go a week with out contact too; then other weeks I'd be in contact every couple days. I suppose I'm not as oblivious as most INTPs are said to be, but I have a few areas of my own that turn a lot of Es off as well. Even when I'm able to guess (and yes it is guessing) correctly I still would rather be told what a girl damn well wants.
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

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  10. #50
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    From how you (the OP) speak I think your INTP is quiet fond of you.
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

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