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  1. #11
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    I'm never been in a relationship with an INTP but I have two IxTP siblings. I don't really have a Susy Sunshine reply, but here it is.

    The obliviousness can be so strong that you wonder if they're doing it on purpose. Since they're my bro and sis, the relationship is familial and not romantic so I've learned not to take it personally, but I don't believe you should be required to do such a thing in a romantic relationship.

    You've gotten advice to just tell you SO person, but I understand as another Fe-dom that you wish they would just notice without prompting, without you having to explicitly tell them, break it down for them, explain to them why something is necessary or why you want them to do something. You feel like you've got to write a critical exegesis to do simple shit and that can be exhausting and sometimes I think done just to tire you out and get you off their backs.

    When they don't notice, it's very easy to believe they don't care. And to be honest, sometimes they don't care; it's not viewed as important and it they will become stubborn mules and absolutely intractable if they feel like you're forcing them to do something. I have often felt like I'm always nagging at them to do what I view as simple relational things, that I've just given up and learned to do without. Like I said, I've decided that's not something I'm going to deal with romantically. That's your choice to make because high chances are it will continue unless you can make them see how and why it's important.

    I'm going to say a little story that really was a revelation to me. I was a senior in high school and had gotten my first C in a class. I had never gotten anything lower than a B before and I had been coming home complaining of how hard that class was for me and how I just wasn't getting it. My sis was 17 and my bro was 15 and we all got our report cards in the mail. As soon as I saw that C, I burst into tears and they looked at me and started laughing. Of course, I started Fe-raging at them and they saw that I meant business but I guess over the years I came to see that moment as insight into what their instinctual responses are. They've smoothed out considerably over the years, but their baseline response to most things is just not to see the emotional value in situations. But don't want to necessarily pin that on ITPs, because many people are like that.

    If you're looking for more attentiveness it's going to have to be an internal revelation they reach on their own. Or, and once again I'm going to be honest, you've got to be very subtle in how you "get" them to do better. My INFJ friend's boyfriend is ISTP and she's had to sit and ponder strategies to make him more attentive towards her...how to switch a light on inside of him to pay attention to their relationship. That's more work than I want to do, but if you're willing to do that then do so. There are both positives and negatives to going with the flow and while I agree most IxTPs in my experience and low maintenance, unfussy people their particular strain of passivity can be difficult to surmount.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  2. #12
    You have a choice! 21%'s Avatar
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    I just want to say that I totally feel for you. I struggle with the same problem and I know how hard it is.

    We need a support group for this. Long-distance is hard enough in itself. No contact is horrible.

  3. #13
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salt n' pepper View Post
    Someone should start a support group for INTP spouses.
    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    I'm surprised nobody has thought of this before!
    ROFL!!!

    ... yeah, reading the first part of this thread... I'm so sorry you're struggling with this, and yes, this is vintage INTP esp for males. The cerebral nature of processing relationships means he naturally thinks everything is fine if you are getting along fine, and the emotional pain you're feeling at the space isn't something he necessarily feels or grasps in full. Even when you bring it up, he might still not quite get how bad it is; you just need to work on a compromise, that he at least texts or communicates with you... you just gotta figure out the frequency in a way that to him does not feel like a cage or he might go p.a. on you.

    It's not easy, honestly. I would like to think I have figured some of this out over the years myself, but I still had to negotiate some with my INFP because I was more distant than he wanted. It took me a little time to figure out a new balance in my head and invest during the lull periods.

    (There are some INTPs to whom the communication means nothing. For me, I do get SOMETHING out of the communication with him during the absent periods -- we only get to see each other every few days -- but it's so limited that for me, it's almost worse/more frustrating than not talking at all, because texting is so limited in what it can convey. I'll do e-mail, if I can. But I understand other types get a lot more emotional energy just from that little periodic sense of connection.)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #14
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Some additional thoughts.

    I've tried off and on to identify what the things are that lead to the disconnect. When you believe you've pared down to bare necessities you start analyzing every little thing for merit and significance. When I checked my email this morning, this came to me.

    In my inbox sits two emails from Yahoo News and another from Forbes.com from an INTJ friend of mine.

    There is nothing personal about these emails. Aside from the message saying "______ has sent you a news article." there's a brief message from my friend stating, "I know you're into this, you may want to know."

    It's small stuff like that let's me know someone THINKS of me. They have me on their mind, they've listened to what I've said, it just doesn't blow over them. It is harder to get these types of responses from IxTPs, there seems to be no signs that they've ingested what you say to them, no signs that they've listened, you often feel like you talk too much, but all that talking you're doing is you giving out scads of information about yourself, what important to you, what your interests are. I try to show people in small ways, 'you are on my mind.' Nothing extravagant is necessary.

    But something needs to happen for me to know there's some life in this. I can relate to your desire to develop more not give a shit. For me not to give a shit about someone or something requires total apathy and detachment. I'm either there or I'm not and if I'm there then it's not point in standing around in a corner. I mean, am I at a party or am I not at a party, meaning I'm going to interact and engage.

    I particularly feel you on this problem because it's an issue I've dealt with for a long time. The best solution I've come up with is to not care, to do without, to make do on less. I remember being in college and calling home and trying to talk to my sis and bro, see what's going on with them, how they're doing, and getting rushed off the phone or being told straight up they don't want to talk, they were playing a video game, or getting the phone passed off to my mother. I used to wonder why they never called me to see what's going on, why I had to find everything out that was going on with them secondhand. I don't talk to them much unless we're literally in each other's presence.

    I wonder if I'm going to have much contact with them in the future, when we all have our own families or if we're just going to be kind but distant siblings only speaking on holidays and birthdays. It makes me very sad and I'm already trying to get ahead of the curve and start detaching now so it won't be as big of a deal later.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  5. #15
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    I can tell you from experience that it sucks to always feel like the needier party. It makes you hover more, or get emotional, both of which are going to annoy the other person and make them less likely to ante up with what you need. T types are always going to be able to feel more detached than you. Introverted T types are also going to be fine without a whole lot of regular contact and don't see why you can't do the same.

    I think Protean is right that it pretty much comes down to whether you are willing to be the one making the adjustments all the time. I realized after some time that T types are not likely to be the ones to come to you, and if they don't use a lot of Fe, they really aren't going to feel obligated to either, or expend the energy to think of what might make you feel like you are important to them. If you are hoping for it to happen without you trying to make it happen, it won't. If you try, your success isn't guaranteed. It can really do a number on your self-esteem, even if you are normally pretty confident. If this is already affecting your personal behaviour negatively, it is time to consider if you can comfortably and willingly make those adjustments in the long term without doing serious damage to yourself.

  6. #16
    Self sustaining supernova Zoom's Avatar
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    It's just a thought (I'm an IxTP, for reference), but one surefire way with me to initiate conversation even if I'm off in la-la land and not interested in the existence of humanity is to bring up topics I'm interested in intellectually. I can smell false enthusiasm a mile away, but a quiet "I just wrote a story, *what do you think of the plot?" would be golden. I love connecting with certain people, just more on an intellectual plane normally.

    Strictly emotional, talking about how one's day is contact would be draining for me. But it's not rocket science, and takes five minutes to do. Also, the "Feelery snuggle bumpkins" side of me developed a lot due to my youth so I see where ye're coming from.

    *Pick almost any intellectual topic that can be analyzed.

    P.S. It's quite possible he is just as susceptible to wavering confidence as you are, just in another area. Ye seem to be looking at yourself through his template.

  7. #17
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Maybe you should find another boyfriend to keep you company during the week.
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

  8. #18
    Pumpernickel
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    You ENFJs and your need for contact....

  9. #19
    Senior Member LeafAndSky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine8 View Post
    Fundamentally - I want to lose my own 'give a shit'. I want to be like some else

    It's probably going to work better to be yourself.

    I understand how hurt you feel, over and over. I was with someone, long-term, who didn't need or want intimacy, and that eventually broke the relationship. Now I'm in a (long-distance for now) relationship where we happily never miss a night talking on the phone: sharing the events of the day, our observations, our feelings, new things we've learned or interesting things we've seen. What a difference.

    If you're the kind of person who likes contact and enjoys doing little affectionate things for other people, maybe you could consider happily being that person? You're probably really great just the way you are, and as you age you'll get more greater.

  10. #20
    Senior Member seamaid's Avatar
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    I don't have much advice to offer at the moment, but I also completely understand where you're coming from, since I have an ISTP bf who behaves exactly the same way as your INTP in that regard. And emotionally, since I have similar expectations as you relationship-wise, I go through the same roller-coaster internally. It's upsetting, I agree...

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