[ENFP] ENFPs: Beating 'Em Off with a Stick (Not the ENFP, But Those They Encounter)

[JocktheMotie]

I got loads, they're free for cats

Hope those aren't suppositories. *shudder*

 

[Lauren Ashley]

I guess the reason why the post strikes me as narcissistic...is because it is. As an ENFP, when I was a senior in high school, people I didn't know said "hi" to me in the hallway. When I was a little older, I was surprised by guys who I thought were my friends liking me more than I liked them, or even getting mad or hurt because I didn't return their crushes.

Then I grew up.

You know, you choose to lead people on like that to feed your own ego. I know, because I used to do it as a teenager. You say as you grow older you have less of a capacity for bullshit. Great! Then stop going around projecting your Fi onto people to fulfill your own need for attention.

I know exactly what the OP is talking about, and it's not something that "just happens" to ENFPs - it's something we cause and create, and as an ENFP gets older he or she needs to learn to become more responsible with manipulating others feelings instead of whining about their perceived popularity.

Don't want to be popular? Fine. Connect with people you don't have a special attachment to in a different manner. It is possible to care for people, to talk with strangers, to form less deep connections with more people WITHOUT having the "me show" effect on them, trust me. I used to work in a kind of sales where I was selling myself, and I will tell you it is a conscious behavior. You CAN get people to "leave you alone."

You've got to take responsibility for your own behavior and reserve those really intense connections with people you really want to be close to. If you get the occasional card or note in thanks, maybe try being thankful for it instead of bragging about it.

The idea of bragging about how people would be more attached to me than I to them at my age totally makes me cringe, even makes me ashamed to be associated with the ENFP stereotype. DO NOT WANT.

Bravo.

I was just going to say this same thing, albeit in a different way.

Whenever I hear an ENFP complaining about too much attention, I have to roll my eyes. They consciously behave in ways that draw others toward them to, and surprise, surprise, others are drawn to them. Connecting with people is something they thrive on, and yes, I'd have to say it feeds their ego to an extent. Something in them likes that they can have an effect on people, and have others adore them so. And if everyone were to stop paying attention to them today, they would be hopeless.

 

[CzeCze]

You know, it's moments like these that make me politely recuse myself and say "speak for yourself". I appreciate Marmalade you are so candid about where you are coming from in regards to the OP, but I think one thing to keep in mind is that your own lived experience is not necessarily the same for everyone else. It's normal to project and filter our own experience when we read other's stories, it's how people relate and understand their world. And I'm sure there are outright "manipulative" ENFPs and attention whoring ENFPs but all ENFPs are like this to such a conscious extent? Really?

I think the OP was glib but i don't think she was "bragging" about how popular she was. I think the scenario you are imagining is possible, but that's not what is happening in this case. If she were consciously trying to engineer this situation, she wouldn't be surprised at the response. Of course, this could all be an elaborate ploy for more attention, but I don't think so.

And do people really think just because someone is extraverted and 'nice' that they are looking for ego validation or are "socially engineering" situations or they want something from you? Seriously? That does underly a lot of the criticisms levelled against EXFJs here.

Now that's *my* pet peeve and it is exactly because these kind of cynical/suspicious perspectives that the OP gets the genuinely surprised and even grateful responses. I know when I encounter an unexpectedly sympathetic/nice person I'm grateful and I have a positive view of them/the experience. It's the idea of "random acts of kindness" particularly from strangers.

And there are SO MANY HATERS in the world it is genuinely refreshing and appreciated when someone doesn't fall into that mindset/attitude and is [any one of the following -] optimistic, cheerful, engaged, guileless, etc.

Not everything and everyone has a sinister hidden agenda. I think in situations like the OP's the answer lies more heavily in two directions - either conscious manipulation like in Marmalade's example or else in genuine cluelessness/obliviousness. And outside of outright manipulation/hidden agendas at play, social interactions are so nuanced that your final judgement call of it reflects more of your own mindset and temperament.

 

[Heart&Brain]

I guess the reason why the post strikes me as narcissistic...is because it is. As an ENFP, when I was a senior in high school, people I didn't know said "hi" to me in the hallway. When I was a little older, I was surprised by guys who I thought were my friends liking me more than I liked them, or even getting mad or hurt because I didn't return their crushes.

Then I grew up.

You know, you choose to lead people on like that to feed your own ego. I know, because I used to do it as a teenager. You say as you grow older you have less of a capacity for bullshit. Great! Then stop going around projecting your Fi onto people to fulfill your own need for attention.

I know exactly what the OP is talking about, and it's not something that "just happens" to ENFPs - it's something we cause and create, and as an ENFP gets older he or she needs to learn to become more responsible with manipulating others feelings instead of whining about their perceived popularity.

Don't want to be popular? Fine. Connect with people you don't have a special attachment to in a different manner. It is possible to care for people, to talk with strangers, to form less deep connections with more people WITHOUT having the "me show" effect on them, trust me. I used to work in a kind of sales where I was selling myself, and I will tell you it is a conscious behavior. You CAN get people to "leave you alone."

You've got to take responsibility for your own behavior and reserve those really intense connections with people you really want to be close to. If you get the occasional card or note in thanks, maybe try being thankful for it instead of bragging about it.

The idea of bragging about how people would be more attached to me than I to them at my age totally makes me cringe, even makes me ashamed to be associated with the ENFP stereotype. DO NOT WANT.

Very good post, Marmalade!

To get through the maze of maturing our intense aux-Fi, we may follow different paths (I was more scared and less smug about it than OP), but at some point we will all have to own it and use it well.

But couldn't that be the case with tert-Fi as well, only with delay?

How about this idea: When an IxTJ comes of age, say 30-40-ish, he might display the same pattern as you had in high school (or other disaster-stories of young ENFPs with a poor mastery of Fi...) That'd be tertiary Fi getting into puberty and we'll see IxTJs experimenting with this weird effect they can have on others, occasionally becoming more popular than they can handle? While not yet knowing how to control such effects, thus not yet ready to accept having choices wrt the different flavors of connections they enter, they still do get some halfbaked ambivalent thrill out of it.
"Hey Ni-boss, look at this, I can ride my Fiiiii...!" **CRASH**

Not that they'll admit it easily...

 

[PeaceBaby]

^ best use of bananallama I have ever seen!

 

[Thalassa]

You know, it's moments like these that make me politely recuse myself and say "speak for yourself". I appreciate Marmalade you are so candid about where you are coming from in regards to the OP, but I think one thing to keep in mind is that your own lived experience is not necessarily the same for everyone else. It's normal to project and filter our own experience when we read other's stories, it's how people relate and understand their world. And I'm sure there are outright "manipulative" ENFPs and attention whoring ENFPs but all ENFPs are like this to such a conscious extent? Really?

Yes, and refusing to take responsibility for it after becoming aware of it (as OP clearly has) is kind of like someone having a sweet tooth ... or even a problem with alcohol ...and continuing to binge on sweets or get drunk more often than they should while expecting to be exempted sheerly for being aware that it's something they do. No. You don't just take responsibility for it verbally, you learn to think about what you're doing to other people, and curb it in a bit.

I think the OP was glib but i don't think she was "bragging" about how popular she was. I think the scenario you are imagining is possible, but that's not what is happening in this case. If she were consciously trying to engineer this situation, she wouldn't be surprised at the response. Of course, this could all be an elaborate ploy for more attention, but I don't think so.

And do people really think just because someone is extraverted and 'nice' that they are looking for ego validation or are "socially engineering" situations or they want something from you? Seriously? That does underly a lot of the criticisms levelled against EXFJs here.

Now that's *my* pet peeve and it is exactly because these kind of cynical/suspicious perspectives that the OP gets the genuinely surprised and even grateful responses. I know when I encounter an unexpectedly sympathetic/nice person I'm grateful and I have a positive view of them/the experience. It's the idea of "random acts of kindness" particularly from strangers.

And there are SO MANY HATERS in the world it is genuinely refreshing and appreciated when someone doesn't fall into that mindset/attitude and is [any one of the following -] optimistic, cheerful, engaged, guileless, etc.

Not everything and everyone has a sinister hidden agenda. I think in situations like the OP's the answer lies more heavily in two directions - either conscious manipulation like in Marmalade's example or else in genuine cluelessness/obliviousness. And outside of outright manipulation/hidden agendas at play, social interactions are so nuanced that your final judgement call of it reflects more of your own mindset and temperament.

Right, and when clueless/obliviousness is REALIZED it is no longer excusable. What is excusable in an ENFP high school girl or college freshman is really not as adorable or excusable in an ENFP grown woman, IMO.

The natural tendency to want attention is not in itself "sinister"...sinister is quite an exaggeration in any event, I never used a similar word like evil or malicious, etc....but to refuse to take responsibility for your effect on other people after you're mature and experienced enough to be aware of it is pretty arrogant and self-absorbed.

The OP didn't strike me as being grateful for random acts of kindness either - she seemed annoyed at "hangers on" and referred to the attachments these other people made to her as "bullshit" that she's getting sick of.

 

[Laurie]

Bravo.

I was just going to say this same thing, albeit in a different way.

Whenever I hear an ENFP complaining about too much attention, I have to roll my eyes. They consciously behave in ways that draw others toward them to, and surprise, surprise, others are drawn to them. Connecting with people is something they thrive on, and yes, I'd have to say it feeds their ego to an extent. Something in them likes that they can have an effect on people, and have others adore them so. And if everyone were to stop paying attention to them today, they would be hopeless.

It's amazing that it's one type, too, it would almost make you think that it is something to do with type, rather than attention whoring.

I wish those introverts would stop being such losers and just get USED to the world the way it is. Everytime I hear someone talking about people draining them I just think, get over yourself and stop focusing on being introverted.

All this to say, I agree with CzeCze. I really don't see anything awful in the OP, I have read it a few times and just don't get what the big deal is. Dealing with other people without leading them on is something an ENFP *does* have to learn.

I've mentioned this before but I will mention it again. I was working at KFC as a 20 something and after a guy left someone said I flirted with him. I thought they were crazy since I was just nice and treated him the same way I would a female. As a teen I worked at a fabric store and acted exactly the same way I did with him toward all the female fabric store customers. He called the store and asked me out. I was floored.

People think being nice and smiling is flirting. Since most people don't do those two things the smiling, nice ENFP looks like a flirt and sometimes has to deal with the attention that comes with it.

 

[Thalassa]

All types have flaws. I can't see why it's such a big deal for ENFPs to admit that it is something we can learn to control, instead of acting like it's something that just happens to us.

 

[Lauren Ashley]

It's amazing that it's one type, too, it would almost make you think that it is something to do with type, rather than attention whoring.

I wish those introverts would stop being such losers and just get USED to the world the way it is. Everytime I hear someone talking about people draining them I just think, get over yourself and stop focusing on being introverted.

Lol.

You've missed my point completely. And your example makes little sense in comparison with mine because my post was not about extraversion or anything inherent in the ENFP personality type, but certain behaviors that some ENFPs willingly display.

 

[simulatedworld]

Bravo.

I was just going to say this same thing, albeit in a different way.

Whenever I hear an ENFP complaining about too much attention, I have to roll my eyes. They consciously behave in ways that draw others toward them to, and surprise, surprise, others are drawn to them. Connecting with people is something they thrive on, and yes, I'd have to say it feeds their ego to an extent. Something in them likes that they can have an effect on people, and have others adore them so. And if everyone were to stop paying attention to them today, they would be hopeless.

It reminds me of ridiculously attractive women who complain about how much it sucks to be ridiculously attractive.

Sympathy level = zero.

 

[simulatedworld]

I really don't see anything awful in the OP, I have read it a few times and just don't get what the big deal is. Dealing with other people without leading them on is something an ENFP *does* have to learn.

The problem is that it's framed in a "gosh I have no idea why this happens to me; it's everyone else's problem because they're too clingy and I'm just way too awesome for them to handle!" kind of way, rather than a "I have a problem with leading people on too much and I need to work on it" kind of way.

The blame is projected elsewhere.

 

[heart]

Lol.

You've missed my point completely. And your example makes little sense in comparison with mine because my post was not about extraversion or anything inherent in the ENFP personality type, but certain behaviors that some ENFPs willingly display.

Yes, not about E verses I at all. An INFP could do the same thing, on a lesser scale.

 

[Zarathustra]

Very good post, Marmalade!

To get through the maze of maturing our intense aux-Fi, we may follow different paths (I was more scared and less smug about it than OP), but at some point we will all have to own it and use it well.

But couldn't that be the case with tert-Fi as well, only with delay?

How about this idea: When an IxTJ comes of age, say 30-40-ish, he might display the same pattern as you had in high school (or other disaster-stories of young ENFPs with a poor mastery of Fi...) That'd be tertiary Fi getting into puberty and we'll see IxTJs experimenting with this weird effect they can have on others, occasionally becoming more popular than they can handle? While not yet knowing how to control such effects, thus not yet ready to accept having choices wrt the different flavors of connections they enter, they still do get some halfbaked ambivalent thrill out of it.
"Hey Ni-boss, look at this, I can ride my Fiiiii...!" **CRASH**

Not that they'll admit it easily...

 

[Zarathustra]

The problem is that it's framed in a "gosh I have no idea why this happens to me; it's everyone else's problem because they're too clingy and I'm just way too awesome for them to handle!" kind of way, rather than a "I have a problem with leading people on too much and I need to work on it" kind of way.

The blame is projected elsewhere.

word.

 

[Lady_X]

yeah i get people relating to the op's experience of relating well to people...maybe experiencing their friendliness being misunderstood...i get that...but ffs woman!! be appreciative of your natural ability to build a rapport with people. complaining about it is just poor taste imo.

 

[sculpting]

Yes, and refusing to take responsibility for it after becoming aware of it (as OP clearly has) is kind of like someone having a sweet tooth ... or even a problem with alcohol ...and continuing to binge on sweets or get drunk more often than they should while expecting to be exempted sheerly for being aware that it's something they do. No. You don't just take responsibility for it verbally, you learn to think about what you're doing to other people, and curb it in a bit.

Yeah. This. I think last year the ENFP flirt thread highlighted this for me. It made me step back and pay very careful attention to my own behavior.

I spent a significant amount of time trying to understand if I was actually manipulating people-which is wrong in my book-or just making their day brighter?

Some of both. I made people care about me which by default makes me care about them, so I end up obligated-yet what do i owe them? What am I seeking from them? Guilt...

When I get super Ne, I actually will hop from office to office "connecting" aka seeking validation of emotional connections. People like it, I brighten their day and it's fun, but yeah.. that dark side huh, once I understood what I was doing? Luckliy due to having the Fi of a four year old, I come across as less sexy kitten and more cracked out preschooler so dont tend to confuse others as being flirty.


How much of being an ENFP is about having some very natural pre-programmed innate skill sets-that we have learn to use properly? Do we hurt others out of intent or out of obliviousness?

 

[Lady_X]

Yeah. This. I think last year the ENFP flirt thread highlighted this for me. It made me step back and pay very careful attention to my own behavior.

I spent a significant amount of time trying to understand if I was actually manipulating people-which is wrong in my book-or just making their day brighter?

Some of both. I made people care about me which by default makes me care about them, so I end up obligated-yet what do i owe them? What am I seeking from them? Guilt...

When I get super Ne, I actually will hop from office to office "connecting" aka seeking validation of emotional connections. People like it, I brighten their day and it's fun, but yeah.. that dark side huh, once I understood what I was doing? Luckliy due to having the Fi of a four year old, I come across as less sexy kitten and more cracked out preschooler so dont tend to confuse others as being flirty.


How much of being an ENFP is about having some very natural pre-programmed innate skill sets-that we have learn to use properly? Do we hurt others out of intent or out of obliviousness?

hurt people? who says we're hurting people? yeah i don't know that i feel the way we relate to people is bad...what's wrong with being friendly?

 

[JoSunshine]

I think one thing to keep in mind is that your own lived experience is not necessarily the same for everyone else. It's normal to project and filter our own experience when we read other's stories, it's how people relate and understand their world.

Excellent point. I was thinking the same thing. I feel like many more questions should have been asked of the OP's experience before moving straight to a conclusion.

It reminds me of ridiculously attractive women who complain about how much it sucks to be ridiculously attractive.

I would think being a ridiculously attractive woman would come with a whole set of challenges, just like being famous or rich or even popluar comes with challenges. There is a flip side to everything if you take the time to consider it.

 

[sculpting]

hurt people? who says we're hurting people? yeah i don't know that i feel the way we relate to people is bad...what's wrong with being friendly?

Sorry I kinda skipped steps in that last q. I think our typically MO of sweetness doesnt hurt people-but it can confuse other people sometimes. Out of that confusion can come hurt or a feeling the other person was manipulated i think. But in reality we were just doing what we do??? I dunno.

 

[simulatedworld]

I would think being a ridiculously attractive woman would come with a whole set of challenges, just like being famous or rich or even popluar comes with challenges. There is a flip side to everything if you take the time to consider it.

Uh huh, and I'm sure being a billionaire sucks because your taxes are more complicated. Somehow I don't feel sorry for billionaires.

A 2007 study by Daniel Hamermesh and Jeff Biddle published in the Journal of Labor Economics revealed that attractive folks earned 5 percent more in hourly wages than their average-looking counterparts. Attractive people also earned 9 percent more per hour than the plainest people (uglies).

A quick breakdown:

The beautiful ones: $42,000
Average Joes: $40,000
The uglies: $36,400

The research also indicated that the uglies were also less likely to receive promotions at work compared to their more attractive colleagues.

In schools, better-looking professors get better-looking evaluations from students. Even babies prefer pretty faces to not-so-pretty ones.

There may be negative things about being ridiculously attractive, but they're grossly outweighed by the positives, so nobody cares.