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  1. #181
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    Really what tends to get under my skin is that the presentation is very convincing, but doesnt fit reality. What you say doesnt mesh or sit right with what I noticed and my example cases are me comparing it to reality. You have removed everything that is not correct to the point where there is a dissconnect with reality.
    I totally understand this.

    However, my point is that the point of my presentation is not to "convince" but to say "this is how I see it."

    What happens, though, is that the presentation is often so thorough, it convinces on its own merits. If there is a "disconnect with reality", that should be pointed out, since that is often the entire reason for my making the presentation. Te naturally shares knowledge, and the negative feedback is often more valuable than any positive feedback, because I've successfully presented things well enough that constructive criticism is possible. In all likelihood, the criticism, the "disconnect with reality" turns out upon investigation and discussion to clarify the topic at hand, and disproves neither presenter nor criticizer.

    What I see along the Fe/Ti vs Te/Fi divide is that the mannerisms of Te are interpreted in Fe terms. In my head, I'm just listing fact, fact, fact in an organized Te way, showcasing my reasoning. The listener in Fe mode is hearing oratory intended to convince, not a list of facts. Thus, in more casual environments, I insert a lot of "I thinks" and "perhaps" and "maybes" just to bypass that "oratory" interpretation.

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    I totally understand this.

    However, my point is that the point of my presentation is not to "convince" but to say "this is how I see it."

    What happens, though, is that the presentation is often so thorough, it convinces on its own merits. If there is a "disconnect with reality", that should be pointed out, since that is often the entire reason for my making the presentation. Te naturally shares knowledge, and the negative feedback is often more valuable than any positive feedback, because I've successfully presented things well enough that constructive criticism is possible. In all likelihood, the criticism, the "disconnect with reality" turns out upon investigation and discussion to clarify the topic at hand, and disproves neither presenter nor criticizer.

    What I see along the Fe/Ti vs Te/Fi divide is that the mannerisms of Te are interpreted in Fe terms. In my head, I'm just listing fact, fact, fact in an organized Te way, showcasing my reasoning. The listener in Fe mode is hearing oratory intended to convince, not a list of facts. Thus, in more casual environments, I insert a lot of "I thinks" and "perhaps" and "maybes" just to bypass that "oratory" interpretation.
    This is where I look at what I personally deem as intent. Yes my Fe judges that it is "oratory intended to convince", but intention to convince is a very shallow level to me and is pushed back heavily. I get under that and try to find what it is you are trying to convince and pretty much the entire context gets pulled into the picture. Not just the context of the topic, but pretty much everything that could possibly be involved, everyone that is involved, history, current perception, etc. I think the extent my Fe judgement will be carried out, in this regard, is try to provide these perception flags like Happy said she puts up. Just things to watch out for. These are things that I naturally pick up and notice and use as a guide of who and to what level I can trust. The disconnect is obvious to me, the detail or explanation is not always. Its a very shallow flag that gets thrown and I may choose to dig deeper or I may not. I dont dig into every flag that gets thrown. It would be exhausting and I dont possibly have that much time.

    Like in this case, conviction on its own merits based on your perception is steering, whether intended to or not. The more convincing you can be the better your ability to steer based on your perception. This is reality irregardless of intent. What really matters personally is your real intent or your goal. Thats where the action of steering is neither good nor bad, but a personal judgement of the person is taken into account. Even this judgement is always up to change and very flexible. My judgement is extremely fuzzy.
    Im out, its been fun

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