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  1. #151
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Its perfectly obvious that the analogy is limited. There was no need to completely deconstruct it with such ferocity. This is a thorough effort to intentionally misunderstand the use of analogy altogether.

    I'm tired of this. Can't we return to the actual topic? If you want to further discuss this issue, start a separate thread. Please.
    I don't really understand what you're talking about here. I had already finished that point several posts ago and only continued to defend it further because you stared putting words in my mouth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur View Post
    Being happy and having money don't have anything to do with each other. It's really silly to equate the two.
    Having money doesn't guarantee happiness and not having money doesn't guarantee unhappiness, but since more money = more freedom to do what you want, it's very obvious that there's a correlation between more money and more happiness in a market-driven society, and to pretend otherwise is simply naive.

    It's pretty much impossible for a large gain in money to make someone less happy, but it's quite common for it to make someone more happy. Just because money doesn't guarantee happiness doesn't mean there's no correlation between having money and being happy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur View Post
    Well even a rich and famous star can come down with cancer or have a child die or things that most people consider terrible, right? It's not all money. And even if it was, it doesn't make you happy anyway.

    (no, wasn't commenting on you, it just obviously doesn't have much to do with this discussion)
    Yes, those things can happen to rich/famous people, and I genuinely feel sorry for them when they do. I'm not telling John Travolta he shouldn't mourn his son's death because he's a famous actor.

    But if John Travolta started bitching about how much it sucks to be a famous actor because of [insert trivial problem associated with being a famous actor here], I wouldn't have much sympathy because being a famous actor comes with a lot more advantages than disadvantages.

    And dude, about the money thing--yeah, having money won't guarantee that you're happy, but it's obvious that rich people will experience a higher average level of happiness than poor people because money confers more freedom to do what you want when you want.

    Are there some poor people out there who are happier than some rich people? Sure, but that's not the point--more money obviously correlates with more happiness; just read some basic sociology data. Rich people are happier on average than poor people, case closed.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  2. #152
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    How about you actually contribute to the present debate for once rather than inventing your own imaginary one with straw man arguments to boot?
    I'd like to see that day

    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur View Post
    Why do enfp threads always end up with other types all hot and bothered, arguing tooth and nail about something?
    NFPs aren't allowed positive qualities on this message board, and anything resembling a negative one will be harped on ad nauseum.... I don't know why that is, but the trend is clear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Nicely said. My point seems to be lost in the endless nit picking.

    I have no issue with people that disagree with me. But if they are obnoxious, hypocritical and high and mighty about it, it gets my back up. And eventually people seem to lose all sense of proportion of the matter at hand.
    Certain people on this forum aren't worth your arguments, especially when as reasonable and gracious as yours are presented
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  3. #153
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    So, anyone still in the mood for sharing experiences on the OP, after all this?
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  4. #154
    Retired Member Wonkavision's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    I've come to realize that I have a particularly salient talent for making people from all walks of life feel comfortable in my presence. Redneck or college professor (and in my home state the two are not mutually exclusive, but I digress), people from all walks of life can feel like my best friend after only one to two conversations.

    I would characterize such conversations as ephemeral. And yet, I'm obviously having a more significant emotional impact on these people than I realize or intend.

    So here's my question to other ENFPs and those who love them...

    How do you balance your innate ability to establish emotional connections with other people with your desire to have MEANINGFUL emotional connections with others? Are you aware that what seems like a casual emotional connection for you, may seem to have more import for the other person? And, if so then what do you do about this?

    Please discuss.

    - Esoteric Wench
    I used to be really enthusiastic with everyone I met. This was natural for me because I was always really interested in people from all walks of life.

    I wanted to know all about them, what made them tick.

    I wanted to connect with everyone and bond and have deep conversations, etc. etc.

    As I've gotten older (I'm 34 years old), I've begun to moderate my enthusiasm when talking to people.

    I've even gotten comfortable with not liking certain people, and (gently but firmly) letting them know it.

    This is partly because I've been around the block so many times and been through so much bullshit that I'm fairly burnt out on people anyway, but also because it has tremendous benefits.

    I don't have the pain in the ass problem of people I don't want to spend time with thinking they're my best friend.

    I don't have women thinking I was flirting with them when I wasn't.

    And I have more of what I have come to enjoy in recent years--solitude and silence.

    If I see friendship potential with someone, I will be my natural enthusiastic self.

    If I don't see friendship potential with someone, I will act somewhat aloof.

    "But that's inauthentic," you might say.

    Well, maybe. And that's why I didn't do it for so long.

    But truthfully, when it comes down to it, it works and it makes me happy.

    I guess you could call it developing secondary Fi.

    I'm clearer about what I want and don't want. I'm more comfortable with making judgements about people.

    Also, becoming a husband and father of two kids has solidified what my purpose, goals, and priorities are and who/what I want in my life.

    It's hard sometimes because part of me still wants to get along with everyone and to be liked by everyone, but I've learned that it just isn't that big of a deal if people don't like me.

    Some people will think I'm cold and aloof and that's OK.

    Some people think I'm quiet and boring. Whatever! Let them think that!

    It's good for my peace of mind to not send out confusing signals to people.
    __________________


    I'M OUTTA HERE.

    IT'S BEEN FUN.

    TAKE CARE.

    PEACE OUT!!!


  5. #155
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    I think a lot of us ease up over the years. That burning intensity that is so hard to control gets smoother and makes it easier to just not overwhelm and bond with people so intensely immediately. And yes..as you said, Wonka, you do learn to ration your energy for those upon further examination turn out to be those special people that are compabtibel with you for friendship. When you're younger you're still exploring, you have a ton more energy it seems and you try to reach out to everyone. At some point, you've seen how that goes and you also start putting more energy in other things, causing you to conserve it more, and be less of a ball of enthusiasm bouncing through the room
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  6. #156
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    I find this thread fascinating.

    People are getting ticked off because the OP seems to be saying, "Oh, woe is me. I'm so popular! It's driving me crazy! How does one deal with the curse of popularity?!"

    Yet I have, for most of my life, been a fairly unpopular, nerdy INTJ, and I'm not offended at all by her remarks. Not in the least.

    Hmm. I wonder why?

    It's probably because I know what she's getting at. As I was growing up, I could have chosen to be more involved with people in general, and decided against it. I liked having a few close friends, and was perfectly happy that way. In fact, I found it rather awkward when people I didn't like seemed to like me, so I pushed them away: gently, but not very nicely, either. Often, I didn't even know I was pushing them away. I wanted connections with a particular few, not with everyone.

    In other words, I see the OP's problem in reverse. There's no telling how many good friendships I never had for being that way.

    If you read into her post, you see why she is "so popular." She naturally expresses interest in and enthusiasm for other people. Do that, and you'll be popular, guaranteed. People like being liked.

    Most people who want such popularity do it backwards. It's like respect: you need to be respectful, first, and then you receive respect. If you demand respect, that's a surefire route to being disrespected. With popularity, if you simply want people to like you first, before you like them, people won't often like you. If you go out and be nice and show an interest in people, they will naturally like you, and you will naturally become more and more popular.

    There's a caveat, here: you don't get to choose which of these people will like you in return. There might be one in whom you are very interested, and they just don't seem to respond. There will be those in whom you are uninterested, and they will respond in spite of your lack of real interest.

    The problem the OP is having is a very particular one. She's looking for a balance. How to be congenial and express one's natural enthusiasm when meeting people, without implying that one is doing anything more than just being friendly.

    My silly answer for her: act more like an INTJ.

    My serious answer: for some people, even any reasonably friendly contact will nearly always be interpreted as more significant than you intend. You really can't control that reaction ahead of time, but only deal with it afterward. In some cases, if you particularly don't like a person (or more specifically, don't like the "vibe" a stranger gives off) still be friendly, but just turn your volume to something below "11". Pretend you're more introverted and reserved, though not necessarily aloof. Smile, shake hands, say the appropriate greetings, and then say nothing else. If they engage you, respond politely and briefly. This way, you don't accidentally send an "I really like you" signal, making it clear that if they initiate with you, it's their choice.

    What I find interesting for my part, as I develop my Fi side, is that I'm only just starting to learn this over the past few years. I was pushing people away without realizing it. I have to make a conscious effort not to do that. I'm still too shy to really be much friendlier with strangers: I don't think I'll ever get to that point. But now I know that projecting that positive inner-Fi attitude outward is what lets people get to know me, and what lets me get to know them. And, as a final message to the OP, I've learned to let people that I don't initially like to just like me: maybe I don't really know them well enough yet to judge whether they will be good friends. There are not a few that I didn't exactly like at first, who later became good friends.

  7. #157
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Right good point...I guess that is what I do..totally dial it down and just be regular friendly instead of really digging in and creating those bonds with people you're not genuinely interested in becoming close to but also like amargith mentioned and I've said before as well..I think we naturally remain pretty open and treat most people we meet as a potential close friend..cause ya never know haha...that's contradictory isn't it.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  8. #158
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    Oh wow. I can totally relate to that gut feeling about something and then having to sort out actually what you feel/think about it.
    That's how real intuition works!!!

    At any given momemt, there are so many stimuli/signals/symbols that we receive and, at times, miraculously sort out/synthesize, subconsciously in our heads, but, at that time, we don't cognitively, or linearly understand what our gut feeling is telling us.

    Regardless, I have learned to damn near ALWAYS listen to my gut feeling/intuition it's a freakishly accurate barometer of sifting out truth from bullshit, lying from deceit, hell, this feeling even procures correct answers on multiple choice exams. (When I over-analyze the questions and the four potential answers I tend to fuck myself over, so it's best to go with my gut)

    I think Ne + Fi or Ti has this exceptional knack for synthesizing multi-faceted chunks of information, this is just a personal theory, but... yeah.


    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    huh. and to think, i was just going to tell the OP that all females have experienced this problem.


    Perhaps most EP females have this problem?
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  9. #159
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    In other words, I see the OP's problem in reverse. There's no telling how many good friendships I never had for being that way.

    If you read into her post, you see why she is "so popular." She naturally expresses interest in and enthusiasm for other people. Do that, and you'll be popular, guaranteed. People like being liked.

    Most people who want such popularity do it backwards. It's like respect: you need to be respectful, first, and then you receive respect. If you demand respect, that's a surefire route to being disrespected. With popularity, if you simply want people to like you first, before you like them, people won't often like you. If you go out and be nice and show an interest in people, they will naturally like you, and you will naturally become more and more popular.


    Preach it, brother uumlau!!!

    I've never wanted to be "popular", in my entire life, in fact, I've always viewed "popularity" to be a hierachical system where sheep obsess and praise these false gods, seriously!!!

    Ewwww.

    Growing up, and in my day-to-day life, I've found and find that I like all sorts of different people for all sorts of different reasons. I could give two-shits about what their status is.

    What uumlau is talking about here is so true that I just don't know what to do with myself!!!

    I've always theorized/thought the exact same thing!!!

    When you are desperate for people to like and accept you, and are willing to shift your character and compromise your integrity in order to please/impress them, you will achieve two negative things, one being, that you will be/come a pathetic person who needs and feeds on external validation, and the second one being, that you very most likely won't even get the validation that you seek!
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  10. #160
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    I've come to realize that I have a particularly salient talent for making people from all walks of life feel comfortable in my presence. Redneck or college professor (and in my home state the two are not mutually exclusive, but I digress), people from all walks of life can feel like my best friend after only one to two conversations.

    I would characterize such conversations as ephemeral. And yet, I'm obviously having a more significant emotional impact on these people than I realize or intend.

    So here's my question to other ENFPs and those who love them...

    How do you balance your innate ability to establish emotional connections with other people with your desire to have MEANINGFUL emotional connections with others? Are you aware that what seems like a casual emotional connection for you, may seem to have more import for the other person? And, if so then what do you do about this?

    Please discuss.

    - Esoteric Wench
    I'm a little confused by your wording.

    I have "ephemeral" conversations with random peeps, and what I think you're meaning by ephemeral is fun and fleeting encounters, no?

    I think most extroverts do.

    Where I am getting lost and confused is by how you distinguish emotional connection between/from meaningful emotional connection.



    If I feel emotionally connected to someone, that connection will be and feel meaningful to me, even if that someone doesn't reciprocate that feeling. (Example, unrequited love)

    When I let someone in, and like and understand and relate to what I receive from them, get the essence of who they are, even while during a relatively short period of time, I'll inevitably feel a kinship with this person, an emotional bond, an intimacy, a closeness.

    I can't recall the many times I've connected with people in the strangest and most mundane contexts.

    This exchange is like an existential hug.

    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

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