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  1. #141
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    Being happy and having money don't have anything to do with each other. It's really silly to equate the two.

  2. #142
    Glycerine
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    Just out of curiosity, did I insinuate that w/ my post? I agree w/ that also. You see that constantly in Hollywood.

  3. #143
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    Well even a rich and famous star can come down with cancer or have a child die or things that most people consider terrible, right? It's not all money. And even if it was, it doesn't make you happy anyway.

    (no, wasn't commenting on you, it just obviously doesn't have much to do with this discussion)

  4. #144
    That's my name biotch! JoSunshine's Avatar
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    There is way too much to quote, so generally to simulatedworld:

    Given the choice to be Paris Hilton or a starving single mother, of course I would choose to be Paris Hilton, becuase I think it is indeed indisputable that her issues pale in comparison. That being said...If I had to choose between being Paris Hilton and being me, I would choose to be me and it is quite safe to say that Paris Hilton is both richer and more beautiful than I am. Living in a fish bowl, being judged and loosing all sense of privacy sounds awful to me. I personally think that any time a person lives on the fringes of society, there is a price to pay - whether that be the poor, disadvantaged fringe or the rich and famous fringe (amongst others including those of choice and those of circumstance). I am simply saying that I have sympathy for the issues and it is legitimate whether you agree or not, although I respect your choice to not sympathize...although I would be curious to see if your opinion would change if you were being followed around by paparazzi and having woman after woman use you for your money when you thought they actually cared. I would think you would have some complaints about it, not becuase you are you, but simply becuase you are human.

    I also want to add that one can be thankful for a privilage, yet awknowledge the challenges of that privilage at the same time. The two can most certainly co-exist.

    [end post directed to simulatedworld]


    I agree with Southern Kross that there seems to be a lot of projection going on in this thread. Attacks were launched where constructive advice or opinions could have been stated.

    Lauren Ashely, people are telling you to relax / take a chill pill etc, not becuase of your opinion, but becuase of the confrentational nature of your posts. If you are being confrentational, there is a pretty good chance you will be confronted.

    That's it....
    "Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. " - Dr. Seuss
    I can't spell...get over it

    Slightly ENFJ, totally JoSunshine
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  5. #145
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoSunshine View Post
    Lauren Ashely, people are telling you to relax / take a chill pill etc, not becuase of your opinion, but becuase of the confrentational nature of your posts. If you are being confrentational, there is a pretty good chance you will be confronted.
    Actually, no one told me to take a chill pill. That was said pages before I arrived here. But thanks for your [unsolicited and unhelpful] advice.

  6. #146
    That's my name biotch! JoSunshine's Avatar
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    See...there it is again.

    There was no advice, simply an observation.
    "Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. " - Dr. Seuss
    I can't spell...get over it

    Slightly ENFJ, totally JoSunshine
    Extroverted (E) 52.5%........Introverted (I) 47.5%
    Intuitive (N) 65.63%..........Sensing (S) 34.38%
    Feeling (F) 55.56%............Thinking (T) 44.44%
    Judging (J) 51.43%............Perceiving (P) 48.57%

  7. #147
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoSunshine View Post
    See...there it is again.
    Oh, please. I'd much rather be confrontational than arrogant and uninsightful like you.

    Quote Originally Posted by JoSunshine View Post
    There was no advice, simply an observation.
    Okay, here's some advice: You should actually, you know, observe before stating your "observations." If you had observed, rather than jumping to conclusions, you would've realized that no such comment was directed towards me. Thus your observation/advice/drivel was of no significance.

  8. #148
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoSunshine View Post
    There is way too much to quote, so generally to simulatedworld:

    Given the choice to be Paris Hilton or a starving single mother, of course I would choose to be Paris Hilton, becuase I think it is indeed indisputable that her issues pale in comparison. That being said...If I had to choose between being Paris Hilton and being me, I would choose to be me and it is quite safe to say that Paris Hilton is both richer and more beautiful than I am. Living in a fish bowl, being judged and loosing all sense of privacy sounds awful to me. I personally think that any time a person lives on the fringes of society, there is a price to pay - whether that be the poor, disadvantaged fringe or the rich and famous fringe (amongst others including those of choice and those of circumstance). I am simply saying that I have sympathy for the issues and it is legitimate whether you agree or not, although I respect your choice to not sympathize...although I would be curious to see if your opinion would change if you were being followed around by paparazzi and having woman after woman use you for your money when you thought they actually cared. I would think you would have some complaints about it, not becuase you are you, but simply becuase you are human.

    I also want to add that one can be thankful for a privilage, yet awknowledge the challenges of that privilage at the same time. The two can most certainly co-exist.

    [end post directed to simulatedworld]


    I agree with Southern Kross that there seems to be a lot of projection going on in this thread. Attacks were launched where constructive advice or opinions could have been stated.

    Lauren Ashely, people are telling you to relax / take a chill pill etc, not becuase of your opinion, but becuase of the confrentational nature of your posts. If you are being confrentational, there is a pretty good chance you will be confronted.

    That's it....
    Nicely said. My point seems to be lost in the endless nit picking.

    I have no issue with people that disagree with me. But if they are obnoxious, hypocritical and high and mighty about it, it gets my back up. And eventually people seem to lose all sense of proportion of the matter at hand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur View Post
    Why do enfp threads always end up with other types all hot and bothered, arguing tooth and nail about something?
    This is a good point. It happens for other types too abeit on smaller scales. It really galls me when seemingly every discussion about ENFPs ends up with, "ENFPs are selfish attention whores!". Its as if people that hate ENFPs only have one exagerated negative attribute do draw on. Then they try to distort everything an ENFP says into 'evidence' of their shittiness as human beings. There is never any meaningful discussion because the narrow-minded haters are putting up walls to undermine the conversation. And they're too busy pursuing their personal agenda to care. I don't see why people can't politely state their opposing opinions without going into bitchy attack mode.

    Same goes with every ENFJ thread; which of course always turns into: "they're soooo manipulative!" :rolli:

  9. #149
    That's my name biotch! JoSunshine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Nicely said. My point seems to be lost in the endless nit picking.

    I have no issue with people that disagree with me. But if they are obnoxious, hypocritical and high and mighty about it, it gets my back up. And eventually people seem to lose all sense of proportion of the matter at hand.


    This is a good point. It happens for other types too abeit on smaller scales. It really galls me when seemingly every discussion about ENFPs ends up with, "ENFPs are selfish attention whores!". Its as if people that hate ENFPs only have one exagerated negative attribute do draw on. Then they try to distort everything an ENFP says into 'evidence' of their shittiness as human beings. There is never any meaningful discussion because the haters are putting up narrow-minded walls to bog the conversation down. And they're too busy pursuing their personal agenda to care. I don't see why people can't politely state their opposing opinions without going into bitchy attack mode.

    Same goes with every ENFJ thread; which of course always turns into: "they're soooo manipulative!" :rolli:
    Thank you for bringing some much appreciated sanity and a sense of humanity and civility to this thread. ...I personally appreciate the bit there at the end about ENJFs
    "Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. " - Dr. Seuss
    I can't spell...get over it

    Slightly ENFJ, totally JoSunshine
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    Feeling (F) 55.56%............Thinking (T) 44.44%
    Judging (J) 51.43%............Perceiving (P) 48.57%

  10. #150
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Umm, great, but that's not what I said and doesn't have anything to do with my point.



    That's...also not what I was talking about. I said I don't want to hear people complaining about things that do them a lot more good than bad. You're just repeating the same incorrect interpretation of my post.

    I'm talking only about problems that result from conditions which also confer great advantages that outweigh those problems. This does not include the flu or any sort of disease, or any problem that doesn't ALSO confer vastly greater advantage at the same time.



    Uh, no, I don't seem to think that. Please reread my last post. You're still missing the point by a mile. The point isn't that your suffering doesn't matter if there's any way it could be worse; the point is that people don't want to hear you bitch about something that does you way more good than bad.

    Being rich, for instance, doesn't prevent you from suffering from the flu. If rich people complain about having the flu, that doesn't bother me, because the flu is unrelated to being rich and has no proportional upside. Disease is a real problem that rich people can and do suffer from and may legitimately complain about. Nobody is saying that privileged people can't have real problems; you're just badly misreading context.

    If rich people complain about being rich because they hate paying higher taxes, on the other hand, they're being unnecessarily whiny because being rich creates so much more advantage than disadvantage. The source of the tax problem, that wealth, is in itself the very thing that allows the person to maintain his highly pleasurable lifestyle, so having to pay higher taxes is a small price to pay for that kind of advantage.



    Somehow you still haven't gotten the real point here. It wasn't that problems that could potentially be worse are invalid just because they could be worse, or that privileged people can never have real problems.

    It was that complaining about the relatively minor problems caused by the very same thing that is also responsible for much larger positive things comes off as an annoying/spoiled form of complaining. (e.g., beautiful model complains that being pretty sucks because too many men hit on her...except, oops, that beauty is also directly responsible for her entire successful career and extravagant lifestyle. Not such a big disadvantage now, is it?)

    If that model wants wants to complain about having the flu, great. Go for it. Her beauty is not directly responsible for the flu symptoms, and the flu doesn't confer any comparative advantage. So feel free to complain.

    As for your flu example, it's still not relevant to my point and never was. "Having the flu sucks because it feels crappy" IS a legitimate complaint because there's no proportional upside to the having the flu. Get it? The problem is with complaining about things that also produce much greater advantages than the relatively minor problems they create, not just dismissing any suffering that could potentially be worse as invalid.

    Why are you complaining about straw men when they're the only response you seem to have to my posts? Please, please read more carefully next time.
    Its perfectly obvious that the analogy is limited. There was no need to completely deconstruct it with such ferocity. This is a thorough effort to intentionally misunderstand the use of analogy altogether.

    I'm tired of this. Can't we return to the actual topic? If you want to further discuss this issue, start a separate thread. Please.

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