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  1. #111
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    It is your choice not to listen to them venting as you find it uncomfortable or annoying. But then you're better off just ignoring these threads, instead of coming in here and making people who are just venting feel guilty about daring to have feelings that they wanna vent, even if you disagree with what caused those feelings.
    Aren't you, at this very moment, trying to make me feel guilty for venting my feelings on this topic?
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  2. #112
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Aren't you, at this very moment, trying to make me feel guilty for venting my feelings on this topic?
    See edit

    The reason it took me a while to figure it out is coz you are relating your story in a way that makes it like a logical argument, a case. Instead of saying..hey, I'm just venting. Though I did notice you went personal here and there, it didn't register as venting at first
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  3. #113
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Edit: mmm..so...are you possibly also venting? In need to be heard? Perhaps you should make your own thread, as this clearly annoys you, and others like LA have the same response (rolling of eyes). Feel free to
    If you feel that my posts are off topic, you should probably report them to moderators, who will decide whether they should be moved/deleted.

    If you don't want to read them, there's this really nifty "ignore" feature.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  4. #114
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    ? That was hardly what I was referring to

    I was just merely suggesting that if you feel strongly about this topic and want to 'vent' on it, you might wanna do it in a new thread. Why? Coz it gives the OP a way to gain what she wanted out of her thread, and you a place to discuss this at lenght
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  5. #115
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    You weren't suggesting that my posts don't belong in this thread by suggesting that I start a different thread in order to express them?
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  6. #116
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    As far as I remember (correct me if I'm wrong), she didn't ask for a fix-it.
    Wrong.

    Why try to remember, when you can simply go back to the original post?

    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    How do you balance your innate ability to establish emotional connections with other people with your desire to have MEANINGFUL emotional connections with others? Are you aware that what seems like a casual emotional connection for you, may seem to have more import for the other person? And, if so then what do you do about this?
    S/he's asking for a solution, not "venting."

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Edit: mmm..so...are you possibly also venting? In need to be heard? Perhaps you should make your own thread, as this clearly annoys you, and others like LA have the same response (rolling of eyes). Feel free to
    I'm not venting. Let's be clear here: I don't much care about the OP and any issues s/he has, either way. Just because I give a response that doesn't pat the OP on the back doesn't mean I have a problem with them or I'm somehow disturbed.

    However, I do find it hypocritical that others here, such as yourself, have attributed connotations to my post that were never there while berating me for supposedly doing that with the OP. But I should have known that would be exactly what you all would do, eh?

  7. #117
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    sigh

    The point wasn't that any suffering is invalid whenever there exists worse suffering somewhere else. It's just that a condition which confers vastly more advantage than disadvantage is generally not something people want to hear you bitch about.

    Your flu example doesn't fit here. Having the flu doesn't confer any sort of advantage, just suffering, so telling someone suffering from the flu to stop complaining because some people have cancer is both A) silly, and B) not what I was talking about. (What was that about straw men...?)

    On the other hand, being rich does confer a vast amount of advantage which grossly outstrips its disadvantages, so nobody wants to hear you bitch about how much it sucks to be rich.

    Being beautiful does confer a vast amount of advantage which grossly outstrips its disadvantages, so nobody wants to hear you bitch about how much it sucks to beautiful.

    I'm not just using "Well it could be worse!" as a way to invalidate all forms of suffering that could potentially be worse, and if that's what you got from my post then you weren't paying much attention.

    I was pointing out that whining about something that does you far more good than bad is obnoxious and irritating. Think about a little kid whining, "Man, my parents are so crappy for making me come home by 11!" Yeah, well, they also spend thousands of dollars a year on supporting your well-being, kid, so shut it.

    If you want to whine about having the flu, be my guest--the flu doesn't do you any good, so the whining about the proportionally small negative aspects of something that provides much greater positive advantages doesn't come into play.

    Would you trade having the flu for not having the flu? Sure. Would pretty girls trade being pretty for being ugly? Fat chance. This is why I don't want to hear them complain about being pretty.

    As for ENFPs and attracting people, I think Lauren Ashley's post sums up this position well:



    Bolded part = the crux. Hearing ENFPs complain about getting too much attention and having too many people wanting to connect with them is annoying because the ability to connect deeply with people provides much bigger benefits than negative side effects, not just because I can imagine a scenario in which their suffering could somehow potentially be worse.

    Great job on your own though.
    To explain the example: Person 2 believes that people with cancer (read: like poor/insignificant people) would be grateful for good health in general (read: like Paris Hilton's wealth/fame), even if it meant having the flu (read: like her trivial issue with privacy), so the problem pales in comparison to the general advantage.

    You are wrong to evaluate a person's disavantages in relation to their advantages. Problems are problems; and the should be seen as separate to a person's advantages in life whether they are related or not. There is a flip side to every privilege. Yes, the flip side may be something that is easier to live than going without the privilege at all (if that is an option - some are things you're born with). But surely you don't expect people to sit there are be eternally grateful for their gifts every second of the day. Nor does being grateful for your privileges magically diminish the problems that come with it. Knowing you have good health in general isn't much comfort when you have the flu. Its pretty hard to maintain gratitude through shitty situations even if you are lucky in general.

    Also, please don't backtrack and deny that you compare and evaluate suffering in general. As you said earlier:
    I don't think anybody claims that pretty/rich/famous/popular people don't have problems, just that their problems are trivially insignificant compared to those of truly disadvantaged people, so most people don't give a shit.
    You seem to think anyone that has comparative adavantages in life cannot experience real problems and that they should shut up so as to not offend the 'truly' suffering. And you do pull the "it could be worse" in your example of the teenager (among others). You might as well have said, "It could be worse. You could be stuck in foster care with sadistic foster parents that beat you daily".

    Anyway, if all you wanted to do is complain about how ENFPs aren't grateful enough for their gifts, you've made your point. Now move on with the discussion or leave.

  8. #118
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    You weren't suggesting that my posts don't belong in this thread by suggesting that I start a different thread in order to express them?
    I was, but not because I'm annoyed at it or find it report-worthy, I just figured it would be something you might wanna explore further in your own thread. It was a simple suggestion.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    Wrong.

    Why try to remember, when you can simply go back to the original post?



    S/he's asking for a solution, not "venting."



    I'm not venting. Let's be clear here: I don't much care about the OP and any issues s/he has, either way. Just because I give a response that doesn't pat the OP on the back doesn't mean I have a problem with them or I'm somehow disturbed.

    However, I do find it hypocritical that others here, such as yourself, have attributed connotations to my post that were never there while berating me for supposedly doing that with the OP. But I should have known that would be exactly what you all would do, eh?

    I did state 'seemed' didn't I? Anycase, it wasn't meant to be hypocritical or berating, it was a mere suggestion. I've noticed that it is a topic that regularly surfaces, hence the suggestion.

    As for the problemsolving..I guess she did ask for it, but more in a 'do you relate ot this`?' way...which apparenlty you don't or haven't stated yet that you do, I think (yes, I am too lazy to go check). As for the berating...I have to say that to me feels more like what you're doing, but that could be that infamous Fe vs Fi thing again I guess *sigh*
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  9. #119
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    I did state 'seemed' didn't I? Anycase, it wasn't meant to be hypocritical or berating, it was a mere suggestion. I've noticed that it is a topic that regularly surfaces, hence the suggestion.
    Yes, and I've noticed that ENFPs bring this topic up often, in so many forms. Should they stop posting these topics?

    Sorry, you're not in any position to tell others where they should or should not be posting. My post and simulated's, marmalade's, etc, were on topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    As for the problemsolving..I guess she did ask for it, but more in a 'do you relate ot this`?' way...which apparenlty you don't or haven't stated yet that you do, I think (yes, I am too lazy to go check). As for the berating...I have to say that to me feels more like what you're doing, but that could be that infamous Fe vs Fi thing again I guess *sigh*
    I can see how you would consider my post berating, and maybe it was. But yours and others were too, as well as condescending.

  10. #120
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Well it wasn't meant that way, for the third time, it was a suggestion. I don't really care about tangents in topics usually, coz i do it myself. In this case though, it seemed like a good idea to split the two topics, one to allow relating and sharing of experience to go on and the other to addresss the concerns you've both expressed.

    I'd appreciate if you stop throwing words as berating and condescending etc around. It would be nice not to have to get in a catfight over this stuff, not worth the energy.
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