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  1. #81
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Congrats Ergo! Tell us more!

  2. #82
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Ergo, I thought you had an ISTJ bf or something?
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  3. #83
    Allergic to Mornings ergophobe's Avatar
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    Fid - Still early days. By and by, for sure.
    One titbit: I'm drawn to overwhelming kindness and generosity in this person. Genuinely attractive.

    Syn - No ISTJ. I think you're thinking of ENFPer.

  4. #84
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Default The Balloon

    Imagine a helium balloon you received when you werenít feeling physically well, perhaps needed cheering up, or you received it as a reminder that you are loved. It was there to provide a lightening of the spirit and perhaps a little hope. As your hand held the string it served a purpose, there was a reason for the balloon to drift lightly alongside you.

    There came a day it slipped through your fingers. It might have been that you no longer needed it, possibly you changed your mind and didnít care for it, but then again it might have slipped accidentally from your hand. As it drifted upwards the reason disintegrated into the air.

    It is ridiculous to imagine the balloon becoming angry or revengeful as a reaction to these events because that isnít why balloons exist in the first place. Instead it begins to drift ever upwards with an increasing existential isolation fueled by inevitability. The balloon becomes lost with a sense of increasing internal pressure resulting from its upward momentum into the vast expanse.

    As time passes there appears to be an advantage to these circumstances after all. A broader perspective comes into view as the balloon looks down now being able to see all the people. Some are holding balloons, some have just let go, and others are hoping to find another. There is purpose and inter-connection all around. There is but one lingering question at this juncture: how can one become unstuck from the edge of the stratosphere?
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  5. #85
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ergophobe View Post
    Syn - No ISTJ. I think you're thinking of ENFPer.
    Ah, could be that's what it is.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  6. #86
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino View Post
    Speaking for myself, being honest or genuine in my interactions is not only the norm, but it's also what I *want* to be. Being fake is repugnant.

    However...

    One may live one's life very much as "oneself" while never fully exposing the flank to attack. I've explained this to my befuddled ENFP twin over and over, and she gets what I'm saying, but she finds the behavior mystifying in practice. I see her openness as an alarming thing that requires my shielding (though she can certainly handle herself fine...). Most NFJs I've met are the same way and I have no idea why.

    As I said before, living on the surface is excruciating. Perhaps this ENFJ you speak of realizes that he's not opening up enough, fears your loss (as a valued person) and offers you a little more access or glimpse into himself because he doesn't want you to go.

    That sort of response will NOT be protracted, more like a few flashes of lightning, and then darkness again. We're not very good at *remaining* on the surface.
    I don't see this ENFJ as fake at all, or even shallow, and that's precisely why I'd like to see those "flashes" more. I very much think the bolded part is true....

    Maybe I am comparing him to my other ENFJ friend too much, but he goes to almost the other extreme where he is constantly opening up to me because he has the happy, confident face with everyone else and I'm one of the few trusted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    This sounds a lot like my ENFJ friend. It really boggles my mind that she seems incapable of summoning up certain things for conversation or sharing. She really seems inaccessible in some fundamental way. We went to the beach for a few weeks because her father has a beach house and only when we both got drunk did she open up about some things. And I was so shocked because it was so much worse than I had imagined. She had experienced so many things that most people would never experience. I could see why she kept it to herself with most people because really a lot of people can't handle when things get real. I think being rather emotionally distant can help me in such cases because I don't suffer from pangs of empathy. I just want to listen and understand. But, I think that was the last time we really broached such personal things. I do understand now why she avoids such territory. Much easier to focus on other people and being "outside".
    Well, this particular ENFJ friend of mine has certainly had trauma. He does this sort of "cryptic whining" at times, but if you ask why he's down, he brushes it off. I thought maybe it's because he does not feel safe to confide, but I also think he suddenly becomes embarrassed and feels overly dramatic.

    I wouldn't call my empathetic feeling "pangs" at all, as it does not necessarily wear on me to listen, and I'm unusual in the sense that I don't find such discussions to be downers....but I suppose a lot of people do and that's why they are hesitant to even venture into that territory. I think you're right in saying that these types of people deal with it by blocking it out. In fact, I am now suspecting that his "cryptic whining" is not seeking an outlet so much as a distraction....I wouldn't call it a "cry for attention" as I don't see him as any attention whore, but I don't think he's looking to discuss so much as to be diverted from it.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  7. #87
    Senior Member copperfish17's Avatar
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    Bringing the thread back from its necro-ness...

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I don't see this ENFJ as fake at all, or even shallow, and that's precisely why I'd like to see those "flashes" more.

    Well, this particular ENFJ friend of mine has certainly had trauma. He does this sort of "cryptic whining" at times, but if you ask why he's down, he brushes it off. I thought maybe it's because he does not feel safe to confide, but I also think he suddenly becomes embarrassed and feels overly dramatic.
    Interesting... so what do you E/INFJs have to say about being described as secretive (in general)? Is this an accurate claim to make? Why do you feel inclined to "hide" your inner self from people? Is it some sort of paranoia, perhaps (as in you're afraid others might use your "soft side" against you)? Is it just because you like keeping to yourself (which certainly is true for myself)?

    I ask b/c I know an ENFJ who refuses to share any minute details of her life with anyone - her cell phone number, skype mailing address, even her BIRTHDAY... which makes me wonder. Perhaps she's just an odd one/extreme case.

    Interested in hearing from INFJ's too!

    Man, NFJ's are hard to read into... primarily 'cuz of their Fe. I don't do Fe. *inferior function*
    Enneagram: 5w4 5-9-2 (5w4 9w1 2w1) sp/so

    "Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience." - Greg King
    The worst mistake people make in political arguments is assuming that the other side is not trying to do the right thing. This simple oversight makes productive conversation nearly impossible.

  8. #88
    Lungs & Lips Locked Unkindloving's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by copperfish17 View Post
    Interesting... so what do you E/INFJs have to say about being described as secretive (in general)? Is this an accurate claim to make? Why do you feel inclined to "hide" your inner self from people? Is it some sort of paranoia, perhaps (as in you're afraid others might use your "soft side" against you)? Is it just because you like keeping to yourself (which certainly is true for myself)?
    Paranoia and vulnerability. I would say we are people whose express drive is to let others trust in us. We can sort through who we can trust and to what extent pretty easily, especially with more life experience, but it doesn't come up with positive results as frequently as we'd like. This is especially the case given how intense we are and how much of us there is to take in and understand.

    I could see other ENFJs being considered secretive.
    A lot of the time, i think i am appearing extremely open while i am being secretive about very important aspects that would color understanding better. I'll tell people anything they are curious about, but detaching the emotions leaves out an entire world of how it really is. Amusing to think about, actually.
    Man, NFJ's are hard to read into... primarily 'cuz of their Fe. I don't do Fe. *inferior function*
    If we're hard to read into.. i think we've accomplished our goal, even if we don't know it is part of the goal.
    Hang on traveling woman - Don't sacrifice your plan
    Cause it will come back to you - Before you lose it on the man


    .:: DWTWD ::.

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    2011 TypeC Exercise Challenge - My Weekly Goals: Cardio 4x. Yoga/Pilates 1x. Pushups 70.

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  9. #89
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unkindloving View Post
    A lot of the time, i think i am appearing extremely open while i am being secretive about very important aspects that would color understanding better. I'll tell people anything they are curious about, but detaching the emotions leaves out an entire world of how it really is. Amusing to think about, actually.
    Yep - this is how that ENFJ is. I've realized that I have known him 4+ years and he knows far more personal details about me than I know about him. This imbalance is disconcerting for me, as it's usually flipped with my friends. I'm used to being the cryptic one!!!
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  10. #90
    Lungs & Lips Locked Unkindloving's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Yep - this is how that ENFJ is. I've realized that I have known him 4+ years and he knows far more personal details about me than I know about him. This imbalance is disconcerting for me, as it's usually flipped with my friends. I'm used to being the cryptic one!!!
    That's what happens when you notice it . I think a lot of people take it as face value and move along. Once you notice it and turn more attention to the enfj, you'll see all of the gaps.
    It's a pretty great tactic in a way. We are skilled at keeping the focus off of ourselves so it distracts people from recognizing what we leave out. We read people really well, which can make us more capable of masking our own obviousness in being read by others.

    I think what i subconsciously hope for is people deducing the entire reality from what i give them to work with. I can give people every detail, but they'll get hung up on my lack of obvious reaction. I want someone to listen to what i tell them and get beyond how i mask myself, without accusation or heaps of effort.
    Hang on traveling woman - Don't sacrifice your plan
    Cause it will come back to you - Before you lose it on the man


    .:: DWTWD ::.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]


    2011 TypeC Exercise Challenge - My Weekly Goals: Cardio 4x. Yoga/Pilates 1x. Pushups 70.

    There is this thing keeping everyone's lungs and lips locked - It is called fear and it's seeing a great renaissance

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