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  1. #21
    man-made neptunesnet's Avatar
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    Perhaps I'm just tired and my judgment is off today, but I didn't see any malice in the OP. I think he presented his issue without making his intentions clear at first, true, but I could see how an extrovert/introvert communication could be difficult. I believe he's just asking for insight on that, actually.

  2. #22
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EricHanson View Post
    I figure I'd post this on the NF forums because NFs are so much better at getting people to open up than I am. It's like an NF trait.

    Recently, I have noticed that I have a lot of trouble getting people to open up, particularly determined shy people, and I find myself surrounded by them. I poke. I prod. I reveal more of myself. I act outrageous. I sit down next to them and engage in slow conversation. I tell them jokes. Play games. I ask questions. Nothing works.

    Obviously I am doing something wrong. How do you get introverted people to open up to you?
    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Do they like you? You should probably take that into account.

    I'm annoyed just by hearing all this.
    LOL. I think there's your answr EricHanson. I was gonna say you may be coming on too strong and you didn't list in your OP how you look for their responses or cues - it seems like you are "throwing everything you have at them". And that's terrifying/annoying/incomprehensible for shy people regardless of their type. As an 'E' I can still be very private about certain topics or get moody and get very cautious in certain environments and people trying to pry information out of me or being 'pushy' makes alarm bells go off and I withdraw even harder/avoid.

    There are really basic and time tested books and articles about 'how to win friends and influence people' (lol) but the basics apply regardless of the 'type' of person you are talking to. Find something they want to talk about or are interested in and engage them. A lot of times genuine interest and friendliness goes a long way.

    Also, introverts do not respond in the same way as extroverts - you are probably looking for more obvious extravert responses like smiling widely, laughing, verbal agreements, lots of talking -- you don't need nor should you expect these responses from a shy person. You're not necessarily trying to turn the person in front of you into an extravert or you (...or are you? LOL?)

    They may actually like what you are saying or be interested in you but you just dont' realize it because you're looking for them to respond to you the way you think you'd respond to someone if interested.

    Also, matching people's wave lengths goes a long way. I personally try to monitor my energy levels and presentation to not overwhelm or be too out of step - sometimes of course being naturally E and spastic this is hard. On the flip, you can't totally try to be like the person in front of you, there is nothing wrong with being more chatty or energetic or perkier than the person you are talking to, you also want to show peopel what you are about and not fake it. There are people who are always themselves regardless of the social situation and they do fine socially, self-assurance also goes a long way.

    PS "self-assurance" and "pushy" are not the same thing. In fact, being at ease with yourself often puts others at ease. The fact you seem like you are trying so hard to get something from the introvert probably puts them on the defensive. If you are more on the mind set of trying to have a good time or genuine interest in the person in front of you it goes a long way to paving the way.

    PPS Maybe you can start a thread on grooming your tert Fe. Fe can successfully break down social doors much better than Te/Ne.
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux

    Johari/Nohari

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by neptunesnet View Post
    Perhaps I'm just tired and my judgment is off today, but I didn't see any malice in the OP. I think he presented his issue without making his intentions clear at first, true, but I could see how an extrovert/introvert communication could be difficult. I believe he's just asking for insight on that, actually.
    I don't think there is any malice in the OP, but it doesn't make him less misguided. I don't think people were attributing malice to him, just misunderstanding. If I were subject to the behavior he describes, I'd turtle immediately. It sounds like the OP thinks of introverts as frustrated extroverts instead of people who are wired differently. That's no more malicious than Jehovah's Witnesses going door to door, but it's also no more effective.
    Everybody have fun tonight. Everybody Wang Chung tonight.

    Johari
    /Nohari

  4. #24
    man-made neptunesnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    I don't think there is any malice in the OP, but it doesn't make him less misguided. I don't think people were attributing malice to him, just misunderstanding. If I were subject to the behavior he describes, I'd turtle immediately. It sounds like the OP thinks of introverts as frustrated extroverts instead of people who are wired differently. That's no more malicious than Jehovah's Witnesses going door to door, but it's also no more effective.


    Yeah, all true. I probably was just picking up on a "How dare you!" tone that wasn't actually there.

  5. #25
    Mamma said knock you out Mempy's Avatar
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    No, I definitely sensed a caustic tone coming from some people, especially Digest. So you're not alone, Neptune.

    Lol, "turtle."

    But I really liked CzeCze's post. It's true that you're not necessarily going to get overt signs of liking from somebody, even if they are enjoying the conversation. I've been told (both times by extroverts) that I'm hard to read. One coworker of mine is constantly asking me if I'm okay, and it bugs me, because it seems that I just can't prove to him that I'm fine. He always thinks I look sad or angry. My extroverted roommate once asked me for feedback on what she'd just said, because, she said, she felt utterly clueless as to my reaction. She told me I wasn't showing any facial expression. I thought my reaction was probably obvious, but I guess it just doesn't always show on my face. Whether that's due to my introversion or what, it's just to say that you can't always bank on someone giving you encouraging signs.

    Also, facial expressions are one of the most ambiguous forms of communication. Just be careful how you interpret them. A lot of my social anxiety probably comes from interpreting people's responses to me as being indicative of a negative reaction, when from a third person's perspective their reaction might be labeled at worst neutral. Introverts especially might just be hard to read. You may be making a more positive impression than you think you are.

    As others have said, though, your approach may be a bit too... strong. But it may not be. I personally don't mind extroverted people making jokes all the time, as long as it's not at my expense. I don't mind them being talkative and having a lot of energy (for the most part). But it doesn't mean I'm going to be talkative. The worst thing about extroverts is when they seem disappointed by my behavior, or worried that I don't like them, or hurt because I'm quiet and that seems rejecting. My not being talkative or full of charisma doesn't mean I don't like them, it just means I have nothing to say or don't know what to say.
    They're running just like you
    For you, and I, wooo
    So people, people, need some good ol' love

  6. #26
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    Its like being cool.. or having presence..
    Either you have it or you don't..

    It's not something you can "want" and acquire..

    The fact that you have to try tells me you probably shouldn't

    JMO

  7. #27
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    LOL. I think there's your answr EricHanson. I was gonna say you may be coming on too strong and you didn't list in your OP how you look for their responses or cues - it seems like you are "throwing everything you have at them". And that's terrifying/annoying/incomprehensible for shy people regardless of their type. As an 'E' I can still be very private about certain topics or get moody and get very cautious in certain environments and people trying to pry information out of me or being 'pushy' makes alarm bells go off and I withdraw even harder/avoid.

    There are really basic and time tested books and articles about 'how to win friends and influence people' (lol) but the basics apply regardless of the 'type' of person you are talking to. Find something they want to talk about or are interested in and engage them. A lot of times genuine interest and friendliness goes a long way.

    Also, introverts do not respond in the same way as extroverts - you are probably looking for more obvious extravert responses like smiling widely, laughing, verbal agreements, lots of talking -- you don't need nor should you expect these responses from a shy person. You're not necessarily trying to turn the person in front of you into an extravert or you (...or are you? LOL?)

    They may actually like what you are saying or be interested in you but you just dont' realize it because you're looking for them to respond to you the way you think you'd respond to someone if interested.

    Also, matching people's wave lengths goes a long way. I personally try to monitor my energy levels and presentation to not overwhelm or be too out of step - sometimes of course being naturally E and spastic this is hard. On the flip, you can't totally try to be like the person in front of you, there is nothing wrong with being more chatty or energetic or perkier than the person you are talking to, you also want to show peopel what you are about and not fake it. There are people who are always themselves regardless of the social situation and they do fine socially, self-assurance also goes a long way.

    PS "self-assurance" and "pushy" are not the same thing. In fact, being at ease with yourself often puts others at ease. The fact you seem like you are trying so hard to get something from the introvert probably puts them on the defensive. If you are more on the mind set of trying to have a good time or genuine interest in the person in front of you it goes a long way to paving the way.

    PPS Maybe you can start a thread on grooming your tert Fe. Fe can successfully break down social doors much better than Te/Ne.
    ^ Yes. This is good. Listen to the ENFP.

    They are like the ENTP's likeable cousins.

  8. #28
    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    I don't really know how to explain exactly, but somehow demonstrating that you will treat their private information/feelings/ideas with respect and compassion.

    My two introvert best friends (INFP and INTJ) both need a lot of time by themselves, in different ways. They both actually love to talk a lot. But especially with the INFP, she has to feel safe to talk about the things that she holds dear. Often she will just be silent if she thinks that you will judge her or discount her opinions. However, when I am with that particular INFP friend (or anyone else whom she trusts), it usually ends up that she does a lot of the talking, like entire paragraphs just pour out from her, and I end up doing more of the listening. We were sort-of friends and then became REAL friends the day we shared first kiss / awkward or embarrassing kissing stories and laughed so hard.


    The INTJ does not seem to be like that as much (being concerned what people think), just needs time alone to recharge.


    I would probably echo what other people have said about maybe trying to back off a little. Try to observe a little more.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Chunes's Avatar
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    Getting a heavily-introverted IxFP into that talkative state is kind of like finding the g-spot, only more complicated.
    "If you would convince a man that he does wrong, do right. But do not care to convince him. Men will believe what they see. Let them see."
    Thoreau

  10. #30
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    Re: OP, Nothing can take the place of time and just plain letting them get to know you. The more you push, the more you are obviously trying to wedge them out of their shells, the more they will likely retreat, esepcially those under 35.

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