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  1. #41
    Glycerine
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    LOL. Yeah, I have an INFP daughter and if she's going to get, you it's going to right when you tick her off.

    She is in middle school and as she was getting off the bus one day, she saw a kid picking on an autistic acquaintance of hers. She flew off the bus and ran up to the kid and kicked him in the shin and that was pretty much the end of that.
    LOL, I must say you have an awesome daughter then.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    Apparently this arises for me occasionally out of an offended sense of justice. Or just a desire to see others suffer.

    I'm unlikely to do anything much about it, but if someone has really hurt my feelings, offended me, wronged me in an extremely serious way (which probably involved a lot of ongoing unacceptable behaviour), it drives me nuts if they then go on their merry way and seem to be perfectly happy and getting everything they've always wanted out of life. (If they have managed to offend me that much there is usually strong evidence to suggest that they have managed to do the same to others, so it might not be just about me.)

    There's part of me that would just like to see them get zapped by karma or something similar. Some people say to me that people who behave really badly will always reap what they sow, but sometimes it takes time.

    Do you have any comments on your experience with these type of feelings, their validity, how you can defuse them etc?

    Seriously, if I were a really vengeful person and willing to do something about it, there are a few people I've known who I might have done something really nasty to by now!
    You know everybody is fighting some kind of battle inside ..Maybe something you did set them off in the 1st place??
    There isn't always a relation to how someone treated you and how they treat others.
    Perhaps their behavior toward you was just "karma" being reaped on you for some perceived misdeed by you from another.

    Being hurt and shitkicked by people and life myself.. I would not wish it anyone else..even if they deserve it.
    Still I will not deny a certain pleasure in the light of some poetic justice being served up to an asshole who had/has it coming.

  3. #43
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Exit View Post
    You know everybody is fighting some kind of battle inside ..Maybe something you did set them off in the 1st place??
    There isn't always a relation to how someone treated you and how they treat others.
    Perhaps their behavior toward you was just "karma" being reaped on you for some perceived misdeed by you from another.

    Being hurt and shitkicked by people and life myself.. I would not wish it anyone else..even if they deserve it.
    Still I will not deny a certain pleasure in the light of some poetic justice being served up to an asshole who had/has it coming.
    I don't really believe in "karma" per se. I've been using it more as an expression here. I have a strong belief generally in "you reap what you sow"...but it doesn't always seem to work that way.

    Sometimes you do bring it on yourself to a certain extent. But if you try to make amends, doesn't that count for anything? In the personal example I referred to earlier, I made a mistake (involving gossip) which rebounded on another person. However, that other person had gossiped to me in the first place. So basically we had made the same mistake, but they tried to pile all the guilt and the blame for the situation (which also involved a couple of other people who most certainly were at fault) on me. I tried to make amends (for one thing, by being honest with them about where the situation stood) and they basically dismissed my attempts at resolution and closure and healing of the friendship. They later told me that things were ok but in the same breath told me they were still annoyed. They also said "let's forget about it" but then walked away from me knowing that I had wanted to discuss things further for peace of mind and real resolution. We've had no contact since then, which is partly because they're away, but we would have kept in touch under normal circumstances.

    So yes, I did bring that on myself to a certain extent, but I tried to make amends. And the blame was certainly shared, or should have been. And the person has not shown care for my feelings or the friendship subsequently. When I said I was upset about their reaction, they gave me a superficial apology and in the same breath said they didn't understand what I had to be upset about.

    This just seems to me like a larger pattern where a person like this cannot accept responsibility, has to unload guilt onto another, and doesn't care who they hurt in the process. I am unlikely to be the only one who ends up on the receiving end. And it would be better for me to just chalk it up to their lack of character, acknowledge both my own mistakes and my efforts to do the right thing to mend the situation, and move on. But that offended sense of justice is pissed off that (as far as I know) they are no longer bothered by the situation, or by my withdrawal of friendship, and they're off having fun.
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  4. #44
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    I have one serious scenario in which the person caused extreme harm, intended almost infinite harm, and has gone on to win awards and make a lot of money, etc.

    I would never trade places, though. I really believe that on some deep level the logic that equates the treatment of self and others impacts a person. Having consciousness from one single vantage point of self is not a rational reason to measure self as different from others. If self has a reason to live and be treated well, then it only makes sense that an equivalent being would share that reason. A person who exploits others for self gain has to possess a self-loathing on some level, even if subconsciously. There is a way that people pay for their harm even if not externally apparent.

    And if this isn't enough there is always the hope that they will come back as a slug.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  5. #45
    Aspiring Troens Ridder KLessard's Avatar
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    These situations have taught me what forgiveness really is all about and led me to more and more victory over bitterness.
    "Do not be overcome by evil but overcome evil with good." -Jesus
    Do something kind to that person, just to see. Love your enemy. Examine yourself as well. Have you had any part to play in what took place?

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    I don't really believe in "karma" per se. I've been using it more as an expression here. I have a strong belief generally in "you reap what you sow"...but it doesn't always seem to work that way.

    Sometimes you do bring it on yourself to a certain extent. But if you try to make amends, doesn't that count for anything? In the personal example I referred to earlier, I made a mistake (involving gossip) which rebounded on another person. However, that other person had gossiped to me in the first place. So basically we had made the same mistake, but they tried to pile all the guilt and the blame for the situation (which also involved a couple of other people who most certainly were at fault) on me. I tried to make amends (for one thing, by being honest with them about where the situation stood) and they basically dismissed my attempts at resolution and closure and healing of the friendship. They later told me that things were ok but in the same breath told me they were still annoyed. They also said "let's forget about it" but then walked away from me knowing that I had wanted to discuss things further for peace of mind and real resolution. We've had no contact since then, which is partly because they're away, but we would have kept in touch under normal circumstances.

    So yes, I did bring that on myself to a certain extent, but I tried to make amends. And the blame was certainly shared, or should have been. And the person has not shown care for my feelings or the friendship subsequently. When I said I was upset about their reaction, they gave me a superficial apology and in the same breath said they didn't understand what I had to be upset about.

    This just seems to me like a larger pattern where a person like this cannot accept responsibility, has to unload guilt onto another, and doesn't care who they hurt in the process. I am unlikely to be the only one who ends up on the receiving end. And it would be better for me to just chalk it up to their lack of character, acknowledge both my own mistakes and my efforts to do the right thing to mend the situation, and move on. But that offended sense of justice is pissed off that (as far as I know) they are no longer bothered by the situation, or by my withdrawal of friendship, and they're off having fun.
    I was being pretty tongue in cheek. So I apologize if I seemed a bit harsh.. I forget that I am relatively new here and people don't know my sense of humor or sense of irony.

    The bold part..
    Being in a similar situation effect wise (With an INFJ no less) Who is to say the having fun or the devil may care attitude is not farcical in itself.?? I certainly am hurt and bothered by the withdrawal of friendship. But I can admit and assure you.. the having fun or not caring part is completely calculated. If they cannot share the blame and only want to show anger .. why should I appear vulnerable?

  7. #47
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KLessard View Post
    These situations have taught me what forgiveness really is all about and led me to more and more victory over bitterness.
    "Do not be overcome by evil but overcome evil with good." -Jesus
    Do something kind to that person, just to see. Love your enemy. Examine yourself as well. Have you had any part to play in what took place?
    Yeah, this is what I should be striving for, as I'm a Christian... It's a very tough area for me, though.

    Self-examination and acknowledging my own mistakes, while often painful, is not really all that difficult for me. But not resenting the other person, that is difficult.
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  8. #48
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Exit View Post
    I was being pretty tongue in cheek. So I apologize if I seemed a bit harsh.. I forget that I am relatively new here and people don't know my sense of humor or sense of irony.

    The bold part..
    Being in a similar situation effect wise (With an INFJ no less) Who is to say the having fun or the devil may care attitude is not farcical in itself.?? I certainly am hurt and bothered by the withdrawal of friendship. But I can admit and assure you.. the having fun or not caring part is completely calculated. If they cannot share the blame and only want to show anger .. why should I appear vulnerable?
    No worries, I wasn't offended at all by your first post.

    In the situation with the INFJ, do you feel like explaining a bit more? Is it the INFJ who is not willing to accept responsibility and who seems to be off having fun? I didn't quite get that from your post.
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  9. #49
    Aspiring Troens Ridder KLessard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    But not resenting the other person, that is difficult.
    I know what you mean.
    I have come to see forgiveness as learning to see the offender the way you did before the offense took place. Which doesn't mean to be nave. Jesus still asked Peter three times: "Peter, do you love me?"

  10. #50
    Senior Member burymecloser's Avatar
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    NT chiming in... I'm a little surprised there aren't more NFs dissenting in this thread. I always thought cold-hearted justice was more of a T thing, with F's having a reputation for forgiveness and mercy.

    Those of you who do want people to get their comeuppance, do you think that's more about justice or revenge? I know it's a thin line sometimes, but to me justice implies a dispassionate if/then proposition (this person committed X crime, and therefore must suffer X consequence), whereas revenge is more personal (this person hurt my family/friend/self and so I want to hurt them).

    One is cold-hearted and from the head, while the other is passionate and from the heart. I'm sure Fs and Ts are capable of both reactions, but I would expect more Ts than Fs to be attracted to the former, and more Fs than Ts to the latter.

    Are you more interested in the global or the local? I remember asking an INFJ friend a hypothetical question: if you accidentally killed someone, ran them over with a truck or something -- someone has to die -- who would you want it to be that you had removed from this world? I chose a dictator who had committed human rights abuses and the INFJ chose an old enemy from school. Don't know whether that's illustrative or merely anecdotal, but I'd be interested in people's opinions.

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