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  1. #11
    No Cigar Litvyak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    OK, plz explain! I *never* got this. The times I'm unable to control myself and do this, I feel so utterly embarassed afterwards. Most people hate my guts instantly for doing it, my SO just looks at me all endeared...unless I unleash it on him and i actually hit a nerve
    Putting my usual ENFP-infatuation aside, it is so interesting to see you step out of the "harmless bunny" state to go on a horrible rampage of self-defense. It's a rare sight indeed. Snowstorms are no big deal in Siberia, but they are miraculous in Africa or India. We (I) don't know whether to interfere or to watch in awe. It's a cocktail of emotions for both you and us (me), but it's more like cute and amazing than anything else.

  2. #12
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    You realize that calling me cute while I'm in full blown fury-mode is going to make you an instant target, right?
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  3. #13
    No Cigar Litvyak's Avatar
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    I wouldn't tell you. Heck, I'd never even write it down if not for TypoC

  4. #14
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    That tert-Te bitch slap doesn't look much different than my Fe bitch slap...

    Just sayin.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  5. #15
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnFpFer View Post
    How does this bitchslap compare to that of other types?
    Hmmm,

    Well you distinctly see this in EXFPs.

    ENFPs, Ne, Fi, Te, Si will be marked by more cerebral expressions of frustration via physical displays such as gathering all the other ENFPs up in the office and poking out the offending persons eyeballs in their pictures and calling them the antichrist. Then we all giggle and shred your pictures and your associated galactic entity, Hoogs object.

    (Oddly enough our shredder has a no baby icon on it, however it seems idealized representations are perfectly acceptable fodder. (Again just a representative example of how this might play out.))

    ESFPs, Se, Fi, Te, Ni based in Se reality, take it to the next level and often display overt physical aggression via burning all of your things in the front yard, breaking out your car windows, calling the police on you and throwing your ass in jail for made up offenses. They also are big fans of my-space wars that end up destroying other peoples marriages which seem to start over stolen pencils.

    Note the overt public nature of these displays. Not only does Tert Te exhibit rage-it broadcasts its displeasure publically. This isnt planned-it just is how it plays out. For every pattern you can map in behavior, there is likely an underlying biological rationale-an evolutionary reason that behavioral pattern is conserved.

    In this case Id suggest you are seeing the role that EXFPs play in a Te dominated society. If the Tert Te is being deployed against a Te dom or aux, it is highly likely they are unworthy of trust. Since the entire Te dom society relies upon the leadership and trustworthiness of the leaders-and their commitment to care for the rest of the group-ie not hurt them-for survival, a flawed Te dom should be indentified and broadcast to the group. FAIL. (Note, this open display is horrifying to most Fe users. Mortifying.)

    Moving on,

    EXTPs follow a similar pattern with the tert function but using Fe-thus do the opposite of this. The will very obviously withdraw from overt conflict.

    I call this an Fe shrug. Both ENTPs and ESTPs do this. Fe users seem to handle conflict quietly, behind the scenes, in a subtle fashion. This would be in concordance with an Fe need to maintain social stability even in times of stress and disagreement.
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ntp-shrug.html

    Katsuni had some very good observations in that thread ^^ of what this Fe defensive shrug/shun feels like.

    How ENTP tert Fe users respond to stress vs ENFP tert Te users. Note avoidance and retreat for Fe vs agitated attack for Te, thus subsequent bloodshed and escalation:
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...tml#post981404

    Under massive stress I have seen some ENTPs say they can feel a Te rage. I cant speak to this though, just have seen them say this. I dont understand how it correlates with a Te shadow function in ENTPs. Need more datums.

    I assume the other types will have similar defensive patterns, although it seems the introverts perhaps revert to the inferior function??? I just dont know, I havent spent enough time observing

  6. #16
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    A very valid point-this Te tert bitch slap appears immature on the surface.

    Id say it is a defensive mechanism you will encounter in younger ENFPs. My first model lacked an essential step:

    1. Emotional insult to Fi

    2. A choice:
    a. Retreat via an Fe shadow for unhealthy ENFPs or under massive stress
    b. Proceed to step 3 for younger ENFPs
    c. Pause-for older, more mature ENFPs
    3. Then the Te tert bitch slap ensuses

    The Fe users have a very good case of Fi users not owning our emotion. This is very difficult honestly and must be developed as a skill. It is in no way innate.

    Fi displays its pain as a way to gain the assistance of another Fi user through a reflected mirrored pain. It is outwardly displayed.

    To insult Fi is to produce a profound sense of emotional pain and a sense of shock. It is mentally crippling depending upon the level of the Fi connection. It is agonizing and when the enfp is younger it seems to provoke a very strong Tert Te Bitchslap.

    As we age though we have to practice and develop the ability to insert a pause between the pain and the defensive reaction. Once you are aware of the pattern, you now have a choice about how to respond. During the pause, I watch the pain grow, feel the hurt, and then can chose how to respond.

    That pause is essential.
    I think of it as the Jesus moment. I can feel Fi and Te tottering back and forth. I want to lash out, yet I also want to nurture and care for the other and understand that lashing out will hurt them. I own my own pain and can choose to respond in a productive way, recognizing my pain may not be justified or may be the result of a misunderstanding, a mistake, a lack of intent on the part of the other. It is a delicate balance that involves rationalizing the pain felt.. If you must invoke that pain in another-an EXFP, then step back and give them a few hours to process and rationalize. Respect the need for space to process the pain.

    If you push and continue to provoke, you will receive a Tert Te bitchslap, full of venom, as the pain overwhelms the rationalization capabilities and it must be stopped. Te immediately quells the Fi pain.

  7. #17
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    That tert-Te bitch slap doesn't look much different than my Fe bitch slap...

    Just sayin.
    can you elaborate? When I piss off my one ENFJ, he typically retreats for awhile, then returns-albeit much more quickly than his EXTP sidekicks.

    What does an Fe bitch slap look like? What is the objective?

  8. #18
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Happy Puppy, you are my hero!!!!!! And, yes, I relate 1000%.

  9. #19
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvyak View Post


    I know this wasn't your intention, but it's still cute as hell, somehow.
    You know what is the worst?

    You're doing a Te-bitch-slap, and some fucker laughs at you because you are just too darned 'cute' or 'nice' to be that 'mean,' so they think you look 'cute' at best and 'ridiculous' at worst.

    GAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  10. #20
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Puppy View Post
    can you elaborate? When I piss off my one ENFJ, he typically retreats for awhile, then returns-albeit much more quickly than his EXTP sidekicks.

    What does an Fe bitch slap look like? What is the objective?
    I guess the best way to describe it is people don't think it's cute and pinch your cheeks when Fe is cutting down a swath of destruction in full scorched earth mode. They run for the hills with only the clothes on their backs.

    It happens when all attempts at diplomacy, tact, negotiation, and open communication have failed and you feel like your only recourse is an outright declaration of war that's fueled by all the attempts of diplomatic relations that have been rebuffed. It's more or less the feeling of I've been holding back on you and now the spring is sprung. Once it gets to that point, you can (unfortunately) feel justified in whatever action you take because you think you tried to make things right. It begins to feel more like wrath than anger.

    I'm not quite as good as doing the breakdown as you are because I haven't pinpointed any particular function. I can imagine tertiary Se backing this up in much the manner you've described in ESFPs, a very strong need for some physical alteration of the environment.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

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