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  1. #141
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFlame View Post
    That's why you're supposed to put your unstable Fi on paper, read it, rip out the pages, and throw them away. Or go in a closet and scream.
    No good comes from looking/sounding like a nutcase. I know...I've been there.
    but the only point is communication...it's not about expected response...it's a just so you know sort of deal.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  2. #142
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    That's just it, the appology comes from a place where you acknowledge their right to their views. Afterall, I only have my own subjective pov on the world to go on and who says it's better than theirs? They're entitled to theirs and if i can see where they come from, even if I don't agree with it, I will apologize for my behavior. I won't retract my words, but I will restore the social bond going: listen, I handled that wrongly, I can see that now. I still disagree with you and how you hanlded things, but I understand you did what you believed to be right. If it was specifically something that had to do with me (breach of trust or somehow affecting e personally), I'd tell them how I felt about it, calmly and negotiate a new 'social contract' that would accomodate both our povs as much as possible, so that we both stand to gain from it without having to give up our personal space. If not possible, I'll ask them to not repeat the behavior around me for the benefit of our relationship.
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFlame View Post
    Really? I wasn't aware that there were people out there who are free of expectations from other people.
    There are those that will use different techniques to get their needs met from a certain target, and there are those who will just move and find a more willing and able person.
    And there are those who will do both.
    I'm not denying that everyone is self-interested; NFPs just would not frame the situation the way you did.

    They seem much more willy nilly and free-spirited about the whole thing (which, in all likelihood, deep, deep back there, is some sort of "strategy"), whereas you guys very concsciously look at life much more like a chessboard or strategy game -- trust me, as an INTJ, I'm familiar with the process. I just think you ENFJs, with this strategizing so present and up front in your consciousness, tend to be rather see-through about it, while I find the NFP "strategy", which seems far more subconscious and hidden, to be far more enticing and appealing...

  4. #144
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    if there is any sort of strategy going on i would guess it has to do with...how bout you let me be me and i'll let you be you...personal accountability or something...is that strategy?
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  5. #145
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windigo View Post
    This is ridiculous! Is this true? That's when you get down on one knee and take the child by the shoulders and tell him/her firmly, "You do not hit, it is not acceptable." (Please resist the urge to add, "You don't want something BAD to happen to you, do you?" as it could be read as a threat in a courtroom.) The mom will usually be so freaked out that you touched her kid she'll gather him/her up and leave. (Make sure to smile sweetly as she glares at you.)

    The end result indirectly gives the kid the following boundary: If you hit random strangers you don't get to stay and play. End of story. Which is the message the mom should have given her little sweetheart to begin with.

    Now is this an example of Dom Te or Tertiary Fe?
    Not "Acceptable" or Not "nice".
    Acceptable would be Fe
    Nice/kind would be Fi

    I have a toddler who is some sort of little Te tyrant-likely an INTJ. He is selectively aggressive-not to kids at the playground or strangers, but has no hesitation in hitting his 14 yo brother and the dogs and even will hit me when very angry.

    Tim outs are pointless, hand smacks sort of work.

    The best solution? I take his hands and look him in the eyes as say "You hurt the dogs. You have to take care of them as they are your friends. Dont hurt your friends. Hitting them with spoons hurts them." Gently but firmly.

    We repeat for the various objects of dog abuse.

    Yesterday he looked at me as I called the dog stupid. He said "you have to be nice to the dogs. They are our friends. I dont hit the dogs cause they are my friends." Lesson learned.

    Our lesson-Fi showcases pain to force the Te user to feel it. The Te user then learns a new rule about how they shouldnt hurt people.

  6. #146
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Bab: only when you confess to being ENTJ
    I think you're probably the only person left who thinks I'm ENTJ...

  7. #147
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    I think you're probably the only person left who thinks I'm ENTJ...
    My Fi doesn't really care about that
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  8. #148
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFlame View Post
    The bolded results in wishy-washyness? As in, waxing emotionally and then apologizing later?
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFlame View Post
    Hmmm. So is the result the same if there was ill intent? Doesn't an apology destroy the positive effects of brutal honesty? I get that it may alleviate your guilt, but relationship-wise, doesn't it result in a lack of boundaries? Or can you apologize and keep the boundary intact? My experience with *unhealthy* (I hate using that word, but I want to make the distinction) is that, in the heat of the moment, they'll do the right thing (subjective, obviously, but still), and then back-peddle because they have that propensity for making allowances for people. Get their catharsis and get right back in the line of fire.
    An entp and I were discussing this the other day-intent and how it is involved in forgiveness. We split opinions. From my perspective almost anything is forgivable if there was no ill intent. I apologize, address systematically the issue,then we start with a clean slate with lessons learned. Like Amar said-renegotiate the social contract or request that the behavior occur elsewhere-but all of this must be very directly communicated.

    Fe doesnt work quite the same way??? It doesnt matter if you meant to hurt someone or not, the fact that you did hurt someone seems to carry weight and thus not be totally forgivable??? Something about innate social responsibilities?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    if there is any sort of strategy going on i would guess it has to do with...how bout you let me be me and i'll let you be you...personal accountability or something...is that strategy?
    yeah, just to emphasize all my random ideas on this thread where I call out explanations-They are all after the fact. I do crazy shit, then try and figure out why did I just do that? What could be a rational explanation or a social role this behavior might serve? In the moment-except for learning to "pause" most of this stuff is very natural and almost subconscious, very innate.

  9. #149
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    This thread just makes me GAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

    Okay, carry on.

    P.S. That was addressed to those lousy lovey-dovey effing things to our expression of serious anger. RAWRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Puppy View Post
    yeah, just to emphasize all my random ideas on this thread where I call out explanations-They are all after the fact. I do crazy shit, then try and figure out why did I just do that? What could be a rational explanation or a social role this behavior might serve? In the moment-except for learning to "pause" most of this stuff is very natural and almost subconscious, very innate.
    So are you saying the voices in your head are subconcious?
    Im out, its been fun

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