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  1. #131
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    oh, this was funny-it might explain my dating life:

    A quote from The Scientist this month in an article about personality diffs in fish:

    But having a personality is actually a stupid thing to do. Consider a species of spider in which particularly aggressive females have a leg up in fighting off predators and competing for food. That aggression, though, spills into another context-those females may not be able to hold back from cannibalizing a potential mate cutting off their chance to reproduce. This is clearly not optimal behavior.


    But he was so delicious.....

  2. #132
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFlame View Post


    This is what I meant. When someone gets all wildly F-y at me (and I'm an F, so I obviously get F-y at other people), it either confuses me, makes me roll my eyes, or makes me angry. There is no pain there.
    I guess the whole, "You're the worst person ever, I never want to see you again, leave me alone" technique really bothers me when the real translation is, "I love you, please listen to me and understand what I'm saying and work things out. "
    That's not the translation.

    The translation pretty much is:

    You've disappointed me to my core and I cannot understand why you'd do such a thing (in case of values and trust broken)

    OR

    You're hurting me..really hurting me, and you need to back off right now coz I can take no more and I don't wanna hurt you in return. Give me some breathing space to digest this all and get off my case.
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  3. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Puppy View Post
    Always. For me-maybe because my Fi is not mature-pain felt by someone else is always far, far worse than my own pain. If you put me in a situation where my inadvertant actions have hurt another person, I am overwhelmed with their pain, waves of guilt and remorse.

    I can distance myself from my pain and rationalize it and effectively wall it off. I cant do that for reflected mirrored pain if when I have no control over the situation. I cant resolve the pain of the other-thus get trapped in a very unhappy place.
    I dunno, that sounds more like Fe hurting than Fi hurting to me...

  4. #134
    Senior Member BlueFlame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    That's not the translation.

    The translation pretty much is:

    You've disappointed me to my core and I cannot understand why you'd do such a thing (in case of values and trust broken)

    OR

    You're hurting me..really hurting me, and you need to back off right now coz I can take no more and I don't wanna hurt you in return. Give me some breathing space to digest this all and get off my case.
    The bolded results in wishy-washyness? As in, waxing emotionally and then apologizing later?

    I agree that the other is also a possibility if someone is *coming at* you, but there are, nonetheless, plenty of times when people semi-rage because they want to be comforted or heard or generally made to feel better. The more immature the communication skills, the more often it occurs.

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  5. #135
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFlame View Post
    Eh, I don't consider ENFP *bitchslaps* to be all that painful. The problem is, they usually just end up being all about their feelings and how someone else made you feel this and that. How is that painful to another person? If it hurts me, it hurts me because I care about that person and I don't want them to hurt, not because of the string of overly emotional words they string together, like tears on paper.
    If someone doesn't care, they could care less about your tears.

    The key to causing pain is aiming straight for their heart, not your own.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    fi fe difference perhaps...it's more about standing up for ourselves and tellin you to eff off i think by listing all the reasons we expect you to...haha or something.
    and this is why im glad to be an FJ...


    cathartic yelling just seems... low class? ...Not sure of the word that I'm looking for, but if yelling isn't being used as a way to affect the mood in a positive way (is it going to positively change people's behavior?), then what is the point?



    Oh and, Amar, for the love of god, put INFP back!

  6. #136
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    cathartic yelling just seems... low class?
    Don't be so hard on yourself.
    The "idiot mother" you were yelling about 2 days ago, doesn't make you low class.

  7. #137
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFlame View Post
    The bolded results in wishy-washyness? As in, waxing emotionally and then apologizing later?

    I agree that the other is also a possibility if someone is *coming at* you, but there are, nonetheless, plenty of times when people semi-rage because they want to be comforted or heard or generally made to feel better. The more immature the communication skills, the more often it occurs.
    agreed on the frequency being linked to 'immaturity'. It's the frustration of not being heard in a debate, of being misunderstood, and at the same time being grilled which causes this blow-out. It feels like people are twisting your words on purpose and attacking you coz they can..it feels like a frigging nightmare.

    AS for the first, it's..you know, a lot of us hold the value that you cannot force your beliefs on someone else. But when someone catches you off guard and does something you just cannot believe they did...which hurts you to your core coz you got blindsighted, the first reaction often is this one..it's an unfiltered reaction. Only later does Fi get around to going: oh wait..I see how they got to this action/belief, and I should respect their right to believe/do what they want => appology


    Bab: only when you confess to being ENTJ

    There's a reason that many of us feel embarassed afterwards and appologize. But in many ways, I find this to be the most blunt honesty there is and there's something pure and beautiful about it. And it is cathartic. Often people get stuck in a loop of resentment due to social restrictions of overpoliteness, which allows thigns to fester to a point where it's just...an insurmountable obstacle nobody knows how to tackle anymore. Till one day it explodes..and you get things thrown at your head from like 7 years ago. And it's too late to fix any of it.

    Give me ENFP bluntness, honesty and catharsis anyday.
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  8. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    "Waaaaaaaaaaaah I was hit in the face by a little child and the idiot mother did nothing!!!!!"
    This is ridiculous! Is this true? That's when you get down on one knee and take the child by the shoulders and tell him/her firmly, "You do not hit, it is not acceptable." (Please resist the urge to add, "You don't want something BAD to happen to you, do you?" as it could be read as a threat in a courtroom.) The mom will usually be so freaked out that you touched her kid she'll gather him/her up and leave. (Make sure to smile sweetly as she glares at you.)

    The end result indirectly gives the kid the following boundary: If you hit random strangers you don't get to stay and play. End of story. Which is the message the mom should have given her little sweetheart to begin with.

    Now is this an example of Dom Te or Tertiary Fe?

  9. #139
    Senior Member BlueFlame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle
    cathartic yelling just seems... low class? ...Not sure of the word that I'm looking for, but if yelling isn't being used as a way to affect the mood in a positive way, then what is the point?
    That's why you're supposed to put your unstable Fi on paper, read it, rip out the pages, and throw them away. Or go in a closet and scream.
    No good comes from looking/sounding like a nutcase. I know...I've been there.

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  10. #140
    Senior Member BlueFlame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    agreed on the frequency being linked to 'immaturity'. It's the frustration of not being heard in a debate, of being misunderstood, and at the same time being grilled which causes this blow-out. It feels like people are twisting your words on purpose and attacking you coz they can..it feels like a frigging nightmare.
    Definitely been there! It sounds a lot like growing up with my brother and mother.
    People can only attack (or be perceived to be be attacking) so much before that Fi is going to freak out and you're going to go with whatever your gut reaction is to stop it.


    AS for the first, it's..you know, a lot of us hold the value that you cannot force your beliefs on someone else. But when someone catches you off guard and does something you just cannot believe they did...which hurts you to your core coz you got blindsighted, the first reaction often is this one..it's an unfiltered reaction. Only later does Fi get around to going: oh wait..I see how they got to this action/belief, and I should respect their right to believe/do what they want => appology
    Hmmm. So is the result the same if there was ill intent? Doesn't an apology destroy the positive effects of brutal honesty? I get that it may alleviate your guilt, but relationship-wise, doesn't it result in a lack of boundaries? Or can you apologize and keep the boundary intact? My experience with *unhealthy* (I hate using that word, but I want to make the distinction) is that, in the heat of the moment, they'll do the right thing (subjective, obviously, but still), and then back-peddle because they have that propensity for making allowances for people. Get their catharsis and get right back in the line of fire.




    Quote Originally Posted by Windigo View Post
    This is ridiculous! Is this true? That's when you get down on one knee and take the child by the shoulders and tell him/her firmly, "You do not hit, it is not acceptable." The mom will usually be so freaked out that you touched her kid she'll gather him/her up and leave. (Make sure to smile sweetly as she glares at you.)

    The end result indirectly gives the kid the following boundary: If you hit random strangers you don't get to stay and play. End of story. Which is the message the mom should have given her little sweetheart to begin with.
    Yeah, if a stranger touched my child, he would get far more than a glare and a retreat.

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