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[ENFP] ENFP: The ENFP bitchslap

Kalach

Filthy Apes!
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
4,310
MBTI Type
INTJ

Y'know, this whole thing gets started either by me being very damn charming or you being nuts. And the "I am ENFP, who's your Daddy!" shtick isn't really highlighting my rogue-like lady killin adorability, now, is it.

It's like textbook transactional analysis: damn the person for not being the ideal.



And for having another girlfriend. Call it a side issue.
 

Windigo

New member
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Messages
446
Yeah... I might give the verbal knife caught on the spot. I've shouted at a guy grasping at my breasts: "Hey, you're old and fat and stupid, I can see why no woman would ever let you touch her out of free will, how pathetic it is to see, nobody will ever want you, you know that, so look, the harbour is right here, go jump in! Jump, you're an ugly old fart, come on now, people so sad and unwanted have no reason to live, you know that, and no one will miss you, it's over, you'll never get sex ever again, now go jump in already you sad little man or don't you even dare do that, impotent sissy!"
Then he started hitting me until my BF came rushing and diverted the violence. :devil:)
I'm happy he didn't jump, we were standing at the edge of the harbour, next to his boat. But I never regretted a word. Boundaries, yeah, albeit a bit black&white in execution... :blush: I was 18 at the time.


If I still have a small emotional opening, thus still *hope* that we can reach eachother I might care to show that I feel angry, offended or something. But if I've given up hope that the other party will understand or be able to respond constructively to such a show of feelings, I will not even bother to insult them with destroying observations. They have turned into an obstacle and I don't express feelings to obstacles. I remove them. So at some point I decide that communication doesn't further the goal I want to reach, and then even sharp, hurting comments is deemed a waste of energy and not worth the effort.

To me, Te in the service of hurt Fi can be a killer mode. Ice-queen is a good description, Amar. I'm going in to kills something, a connection and thereby a net of potentiality. That's sacrilege for an ENFP, so something dies inside yourself too. Yes, Fi approves that it's necessary in order to keep something more important alive, but still. You die a little, it leaves you somewhat empty and exhausted. I'd mostly rather avoid it.

But I think the killermode - accepting to kill a network of potential in order to finish some imperfect actuality - could be put to good use at completing tasks at work. If only I could get it activiated without the emotional hurt and anger triggering it ... :doh:

Your response to the dirty old man was priceless!!! He was a perv and deserved a public tongue lashing! I guess I know I'm an ENTJ because the first guy to do that to me I just slammed into the lockers. Unfortunately we were at a brand new school and the lockers hadn't been bolted to the floor (slight oversight on the part of the construction company) so the domino effect was rather impressive. Maybe that's why I didn't get a date for the rest of high school! LOL!

"So at some point I decide that communication doesn't further the goal I want to reach, and then even sharp, hurting comments is deemed a waste of energy and not worth the effort.

You die a little, it leaves you somewhat empty and exhausted. I'd mostly rather avoid it."


I can kind of relate to both of these statements. :yes:
 

ergophobe

Allergic to Mornings
Joined
Apr 26, 2009
Messages
1,210
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7w6
yeah...i don't know i think i recall usually just stating things in a very detached matter of fact way...laying out the facts...only when really pressed would any emotional bits come out...and it comes out a bit stingy...like in a standing up for myself way by saying...listen...this is what i did and why...this is what you did...and this is now what i expect...or this is now what needs to happen kind of way...

if that makes sense.

Closest to my experience. It's a detached laying out of my view. Ironically, it's strong emotion that leads there -- frustration, anger, disappointment... Once there though, I put Fi on hold while it seems like Te goes on a rampage. All emotion is removed and a crystal clear laying out of the events, the logic and sequence of events that transpired and what I expect in terms of a solution (I wouldn't bother if I didn't think there was something to gain even if it was only a 'lesson' for the party at the receiving end.)

During the Te bitchslap, I won't shy away from calling a spade a spade, will not soften my stance, will continue until the person gives up. I've got to be really frustrated with the situation for this to happen and it's far less likely with people I know in real life. It's mostly reserved for customer service reps who are rude, condescending, purposefully unhelpful, feign ignorance... and anyone else who demonstrates this behavior or another form of cruelty towards someone who did not deserve it and/or is not in a position to respond in kind/defend themselves.

HP - in a personal interaction where I feel wronged or disrespected, I'm more likely to remove myself from the situation than bring in the Te bitchslap. The only thing I have to offer is my time/attention and if I feel like the person wasn't worthy, I just won't offer it in the future. If the person persists, a short message saying 'thanks but no thanks' follows. I don't shy away from stating things as they are because honesty is best but cruelty is unnecessary and a waste of good energy at my end. This may be the Fe shadow you mentioned but I don't like to keep grudges either (more waste of energy on my part). So, I'd much rather just let it go, not bother with the person in the future while hoping they're leading a good life in an alternate universe. :D
 

Charmed Justice

Nickle Iron Silicone
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
2,805
MBTI Type
INFJ
yeah...i don't know i think i recall usually just stating things in a very detached matter of fact way...laying out the facts...only when really pressed would any emotional bits come out...and it comes out a bit stingy...like in a standing up for myself way by saying...listen...this is what i did and why...this is what you did...and this is now what i expect...or this is now what needs to happen kind of way...

if that makes sense.
Yes, it makes sense. There are definitely parts of it that I can relate to, but when I think about it, it also reminds me of the way a number of people of different types attempt to level the psychological playing field. I guess I'm still trying to determine how and where this all becomes Te/Fi specific. I imagine that women would be most likely to go this route. It'd be interesting to hear a male ENFPs view.
 

bcvcdc

Permabanned
Joined
Jul 11, 2009
Messages
215
MBTI Type
INTx
"Hey, you're old and fat and stupid, I can see why no woman would ever let you touch her out of free will, how pathetic it is to see, nobody will ever want you, you know that
Yeah, I say this to myself, quite literally. Well, change girl to guy or keep it, whatever. But anyway, getting back to the point here -
I know what you mean ... I can Fi spew all over the place at first, crying, maybe yelling, but if someone REALLY hurts me, really does something horrible to me I become cold... and almost evil in rare cases where its a personal situation and someone has really violated me. It's like I'm more calculating and distant, and I can verbally abuse people at that point with nasty, creative insults.
this always makes me wonder, why does it get to this point? This is me to a t, and actually it's me most of the time lately, and why? well, maybe because of the very real violation of a special kind of trust. So again, i really do wonder why it is that those people who you gave almost everything to, like trust and feelings of love, those people who you would do pretty much anything for, end up violating all if this! so, yeah, bitchslap it is and will most likely continue to be untilsomeone here can come up with an explanation not worthy of a another bitchslap.
 

sculpting

New member
Joined
Jan 28, 2009
Messages
4,148
Yes, it makes sense. There are definitely parts of it that I can relate to, but when I think about it, it also reminds me of the way a number of people of different types attempt to level the psychological playing field. I guess I'm still trying to determine how and where this all becomes Te/Fi specific. I imagine that women would be most likely to go this route. It'd be interesting to hear a male ENFPs view.

Can you elaborate on your early ref to an ENTP bitchslap? What does that look like and what prompted it? Also the bolded-very correct I think. And I still very confused about the Fe-bitchslap mentioned earlier. I havent seen that before in EXTPs or my limited IXFJs, so I need to learn a lot more.

Closest to my experience. It's a detached laying out of my view. Ironically, it's strong emotion that leads there -- frustration, anger, disappointment... Once there though, I put Fi on hold while it seems like Te goes on a rampage. All emotion is removed and a crystal clear laying out of the events, the logic and sequence of events that transpired and what I expect in terms of a solution (I wouldn't bother if I didn't think there was something to gain even if it was only a 'lesson' for the party at the receiving end.)

During the Te bitchslap, I won't shy away from calling a spade a spade, will not soften my stance, will continue until the person gives up. I've got to be really frustrated with the situation for this to happen and it's far less likely with people I know in real life. It's mostly reserved for customer service reps who are rude, condescending, purposefully unhelpful, feign ignorance... and anyone else who demonstrates this behavior or another form of cruelty towards someone who did not deserve it and/or is not in a position to respond in kind/defend themselves.

HP - in a personal interaction where I feel wronged or disrespected, I'm more likely to remove myself from the situation than bring in the Te bitchslap. The only thing I have to offer is my time/attention and if I feel like the person wasn't worthy, I just won't offer it in the future. If the person persists, a short message saying 'thanks but no thanks' follows. I don't shy away from stating things as they are because honesty is best but cruelty is unnecessary and a waste of good energy at my end. This may be the Fe shadow you mentioned but I don't like to keep grudges either (more waste of energy on my part). So, I'd much rather just let it go, not bother with the person in the future while hoping they're leading a good life in an alternate universe. :D

Yup this all sounds correct-and yes I function like wrt to personal situations as well typically.
1) some emo pain
2) shock and withdraw-this actually is numb-no pain, no feeling, no need to interact. This is an Fe shadow function used like the INFJs dorrslam someone. A day here.
3) several days spent cycling through Fi pain/Te rationalization of the event and an understanding of where the event was Ne-ed into.
4) Forgiveness or acknowldgement of my error, typically accompanied by distance. Mostly the person never knows there was an issue. Thi scan turn into a doorslam.

Fe users are more like this-nonconfrontational. they have many layers of withdraw-where an ENFP goes dark-no contact.

Do you ever emo spew-the outpouring of Fi that amar and marm both mention? Did you do this when young? on another thread Q cited it in an esfp and I was rather condemnatory-typically I have very little sympathy for emo displays and scorn this behavior in the workplace.

However there are some very interesting connections percolating in my mind wrt to enviornmental stress, Te/Fi development, empathy and how it back correlates with sustainability of a social group under situations of limited resources.

this always makes me wonder, why does it get to this point? This is me to a t, and actually it's me most of the time lately, and why? well, maybe because of the very real violation of a special kind of trust. So again, i really do wonder why it is that those people who you gave almost everything to, like trust and feelings of love, those people who you would do pretty much anything for, end up violating all if this! so, yeah, bitchslap it is and will most likely continue to be untilsomeone here can come up with an explanation not worthy of a another bitchslap.

have you tried directly explaining line by line what they did to offend you and how they could remedy the situation?
 

bcvcdc

Permabanned
Joined
Jul 11, 2009
Messages
215
MBTI Type
INTx
^ i can't do that here, or i would probably be banned. besides, they know who they are and exactly what they did, believe me, they read these posts.
 

Heart&Brain

New member
Joined
Mar 29, 2009
Messages
217
MBTI Type
ENFP
Puppy, maybe it's old news already, but you shouldn't worry about having hurt "the other girl" mentioned in your OP. You couldn't possibly have known her role in this and she'll be well aware that you never meant to do her any harm. I'm sure she'll be quite okay.

Peace & best wishes.
 

onemoretime

Dreaming the life
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
4,455
MBTI Type
3h50
Can you elaborate on your early ref to an ENTP bitchslap? What does that look like and what prompted it? Also the bolded-very correct I think. And I still very confused about the Fe-bitchslap mentioned earlier. I havent seen that before in EXTPs or my limited IXFJs, so I need to learn a lot more.

There's no "bitchslap". We just end you at that point.
 

Charmed Justice

Nickle Iron Silicone
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
2,805
MBTI Type
INFJ
Can you elaborate on your early ref to an ENTP bitchslap? What does that look like and what prompted it? Also the bolded-very correct I think. And I still very confused about the Fe-bitchslap mentioned earlier. I havent seen that before in EXTPs or my limited IXFJs, so I need to learn a lot more.
ENTP guy and I were in our very early 20's and had one of those weird "not just friends" non-relationships. He'd told a co-worker of ours, a friend of his, some stuff that I didn't approve of because they were things that I didn't say. So I confronted him about it to set the record straight and he roared at me in turn. I tried to calm him down because he seemed enraged enough to hit me, and I guess both of us knew that the whole thing had come to a head. I planned to never speak to him again, but he initiated contact after he started dating his current wife(ISFJ), so I decided to be somewhat polite to him before I quit my job and went elsewhere. He contacted me again last year, married to the ISFJ and with three kids. Somehow the whole thing came up again, to which he tells me that he was in love with me and apparently my confrontation was read as a rejection, which was unexpected, and resulted in the madness.
 

ergophobe

Allergic to Mornings
Joined
Apr 26, 2009
Messages
1,210
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7w6
Yup this all sounds correct-and yes I function like wrt to personal situations as well typically.
1) some emo pain
2) shock and withdraw-this actually is numb-no pain, no feeling, no need to interact. This is an Fe shadow function used like the INFJs dorrslam someone. A day here.
3) several days spent cycling through Fi pain/Te rationalization of the event and an understanding of where the event was Ne-ed into.
4) Forgiveness or acknowldgement of my error, typically accompanied by distance. Mostly the person never knows there was an issue. Thi scan turn into a doorslam.

Fe users are more like this-nonconfrontational. they have many layers of withdraw-where an ENFP goes dark-no contact.

The only difference in my case is that I won't do the INFJ processing just by myself (process-forgive-not forget and eventually blow up). I work hard for that not to happen. When I mean withdrawal, I mean making it clear to the person I don't want contact and why in the kindest way possible (given personal anger/frustration/whatever). I don't mean temporary withdrawal to process and then just forget about what happened. I will let the person know.

In my case, in important relationships like the one with family, particularly my sibling, I'll withdraw, clearly stating that I can't talk about *whatever* right now but I want to talk about it soon, process but will always come back to talk and take reponsibility for my end and ask the same of the sibling. Yes, messy, emotional conversations are a part of regular programming here. I think the difference here is, Fi always plays a strong role in restricting Te from going into bitchslap mode. Seeing the relationship as important to preserve and the people as important to protect engages Fi and keeps Te in check. Edit: You already covered this in your post on the 'Jesus moments'. :wubbie:

Do you ever emo spew-the outpouring of Fi that amar and marm both mention? Did you do this when young? on another thread Q cited it in an esfp and I was rather condemnatory-typically I have very little sympathy for emo displays and scorn this behavior in the workplace.

Less now and yes when much, much younger when detachment was difficult and all of life was a bubbling cauldron of deeply felt emotions (read angst :D). Thankfully, maturity and a natural development of control over emotions where they are easier to identify, categorize and somewhat pliable help. Emo displays just seem misplaced in the workplace :)

I have the same impatience for Fi emo displays as I do for Fe-inspired passive agressive behavior. Both are equally harmful. I agree, an evironment of physical/emotional stress is a strong trigger. Brown stuff has to be hitting the fan for an emo display to be triggered. Even then, it will only happen in the safe space of home around a select few. Without that, as with most people, it's much easier to dial it down and talk through things rationally.
 

sculpting

New member
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Jan 28, 2009
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ENTP guy and I were in our very early 20's and had one of those weird "not just friends" non-relationships. He'd told a co-worker of ours, a friend of his, some stuff that I didn't approve of because they were things that I didn't say. So I confronted him about it to set the record straight and he roared at me in turn. I tried to calm him down because he seemed enraged enough to hit me, and I guess both of us knew that the whole thing had come to a head. I planned to never speak to him again, but he initiated contact after he started dating his current wife(ISFJ), so I decided to be somewhat polite to him before I quit my job and went elsewhere. He contacted me again last year, married to the ISFJ and with three kids. Somehow the whole thing came up again, to which he tells me that he was in love with me and apparently my confrontation was read as a rejection, which was unexpected, and resulted in the madness.

yeah, that's odd-typically the EXTPs withdraw under stress-Fe. But many ENTPs will present an INTJ shadow in youth-with a strong Te component-kinda like ENFPs can tap into an Fe shadow.

My ENTP says that when that Te cord gets pulled-if pulled hard enough it feels enraged-but that was only when she was young-under 20. But n=1 so I dunno.
 

sculpting

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4,148
Over the next few weeks I want to post a few more threads that dive in and out of this topic.

There are some really interesting issues to address here. Look I'll spend hours analyzing them for you. Picking them apart, line by line, details, pieces, patterns. I'll define social theories, build some pretty awesome ideas-many of which likely have some basis in reality.

Pretty good ideas for the most part and some I think quite legit. The ideas might even have some good social implications wrt to why enfps behave this way and how we can learn to move past some of this innate behavior, as it isnt productive.

I'll think and analyze so I dont have to feel.

That is how Happy Puppy rolls. Think, think, think, so I never have to face the feelings. The second the emo rises, I begin to hyper analyze the entire situation. Te blocks Fi. Think so you dont have to feel.

I'll analyze endlessly so I dont have to face that I was a monster to someone who had been a good friend. They hurt me out of confusion and I lashed at them horrifically in pain. It was a real fucked up and cruel thing to do.

I can honestly say i have never been that cruel to another person. It wasnt planned or anticipated. It was a massive, horrifying visceral response intended to badly hurt another person. 3.5 minutes of pure horrifying evil rage. Afterwords I just stared in shock then started analyzing. It's all I know how to do. Logic quells feeling.

Typically I always withdraw. I dont fight, I dont have to. I never let anyone touch Fi. Ever. I can think circles around most ENFPs, because I never stop and feel. I am the quarterback of ENFP defensive mechanisms. You name it, I can do it.

Mostly I just keep on thinking, moving onto the next new thought, the next rock on the beach to pick up and find beautiful patterns underneath. Just keep running, the Ne mantra. Just keep thinking-the Te mantra.

Yeah, until that puny little Fi catches up and goes, my god,I hurt another person by losing control of my own emotional response. By lacking willpower, strength and courage to face and handle my own emotions I lashed out nightmarishly at another person.

That makes me a fucking monster because I dont just get a little bitchy and throw something like the other ENFPs do. If I lash out like this-which I have never done before- I do so in a rage with such focus and intensity that I can inflict horrible damage to another person. NeTe with no Fi is a monster. The cause does not justify the action.

Today I cant feel it. Other days I will feel it. terribly.

NeTeFi-in Solitude lies Mercy.
 

alexx

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Dec 30, 2008
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503
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ENFP
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2w1
You know what is the worst?

You're doing a Te-bitch-slap, and some fucker laughs at you because you are just too darned 'cute' or 'nice' to be that 'mean,' so they think you look 'cute' at best and 'ridiculous' at worst.

GAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Been there. :cheese:
 

sculpting

New member
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Jan 28, 2009
Messages
4,148
I am rather drunk in breda. Its a nice town. I envy their sidewalk cafes. Enfps are like big eyed fuzzy bunnies. We look so cute and helpless. We are kinda like weird little pokemons that are all fluffy on the inside but if you shake us a little we explode . Or maybe like that monster in Alien that spurts out of the ladies chest to kill you. Yeah, we kinda seem to have that.

And its all instinct. Its all authentic. we just go nuts. Then we stare around at the carnage.
We may be the ultimate bezerkers.

Imagine coming home to find you rottweiler missing and you cute big eyed bunny covered in blood with big bunny eyes just staring. Little ears all flopped down. What just happened?

Te thinks there is some sort of social balancing thing going on here but yeah I need to do some fi-ing, so um, uh okay. Te does suggest enfps need proper calibration. Improperly calibrated explosive devices equals bad.

My friend did the emotional equivelant of changing lanes without a blinker. This precipitated a response on part equivelant to dropping a 40 megaton nuclear bomb on him. I appear to be improperly calibrated.

Strangely-all instinctual-horrific yet authentic, yet precise in it's destructive intent. All subconscious. Pure reactivity that leads to horrifying consequences. Wtf?
 

sculpting

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Jan 28, 2009
Messages
4,148
Another thought. In the midst of the bezerker attack we can hurl insults of cutting agony.

How do we know what to say? How do we know how to hurt others so much? I don't know. I called my friend a stalker. That was so wrong, so cruel, so evil-so incorrect. Yet it was so natural to say. Are we designed to maintain inventories of words just to destroy others with them? I dunno.

My friend is not a stalker at all. That was nightmarish of me to say. My friend was an intj-all of whom seem to want to take care of space cadet, bunny eyed, poorly calibrated bezerker enfps. He may qualify as having an OCD wrt to trying to keep enfps out of stupidity, but he was never a stalker. It was how he showed he cared.

Why/how/what makes hurting others so easy in this mode? How can it be built into my brain to do so, easily? I don't know. The idea of hurting another is so wrong to me, yet even under slight pressure I became an entity of destruction.

I can rationalize, but no. I think the real lesson is to be learned in the mirrored pain of the destructive aftermath sowed.
 

uumlau

Happy Dancer
Joined
Feb 9, 2010
Messages
5,517
MBTI Type
INTJ
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953
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
@Happy Puppy:

You're just a vorpal bunny, is all.

And INTJs have Holy Hand Grenades.

And know how to count to three.
 

alexx

New member
Joined
Dec 30, 2008
Messages
503
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ENFP
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2w1
An entp and I were discussing this the other day-intent and how it is involved in forgiveness. We split opinions. From my perspective almost anything is forgivable if there was no ill intent. I apologize, address systematically the issue,then we start with a clean slate with lessons learned.

Same here.
 
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