• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[NF] You say NF's are soft?

niberrizbe25

New member
Joined
Mar 5, 2010
Messages
36
MBTI Type
ENXP
Enneagram
4/7
Hey there Nico here! This is my first thread on this site! Whoho go ahead and break the confety!
Anyways on a slightly more serious tone, I was exploring the Idyllic based threads and recognize a pattern; it seems that many people deem us to be whishy washy, conflict avoidant and vulnerable. I must admit I find this slightly insulting because I think this kind of behaviour goes against my moral code. Sure the are many people who I concider NF's that have, how should I put it nicely, rainbowtastic antics and are scared of any kind of confrontation. I, for one, have no problem with confrontation; usually, I make my agressors put their own foot in their mouth. I want to see what my fellow NF's have to say about this preconcived stereotype.
Rant away!
 

Unkindloving

Lungs & Lips Locked
Joined
Dec 10, 2009
Messages
2,963
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
4w5
I think NFs get this stereotype because they start out pretty open. They gradually learn to compartmentalize, growing a thicker skin as they mature.

NTs, as an example, start out pretty closed. They'll learn how to be more open, letting the walls down tactfully as they mature.

All types can be triggered to do the opposite pretty early on, but i doubt it tends to be pretty at that point.
 

kiddykat

movin melodies
Joined
Jul 27, 2008
Messages
1,111
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4, 7
I used to be pretty confrontational when I was in my teens?

After having to work, go to school, juggle with all sorts of life events, I'm just so tired to have to put up a fight anymore.

People will be people. If need be, if I'm really irritated, I'll let a person know, or simply will not interact with them. Anger takes too much energy away from me. I need a Red Bull for that. Maybe my blood pressure's waay too low. IDK..

On the other hand, when I explode, I EXPLODE.
 

mr.awesome

New member
Joined
Jan 2, 2010
Messages
368
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
My close friend tested an INFP, to me she seems like an ENFP.. whatever, anywho. She was hated for being confrontational. to be honest she lost way too many friends because when they did something she didnt like, she effing told them. shes totally an exception to that stereotype.
although i seem to fit it well. hahah
 

Fidelia

Iron Maiden
Staff member
Joined
May 31, 2009
Messages
14,497
MBTI Type
INFJ
I'm not sure the male NFs here will appreciate the title...
 

Biaxident

Charting a course
Joined
Jan 10, 2009
Messages
3,617
MBTI Type
INFP
I'm not sure the male NFs here will appreciate the title...

Let people think what they want. When someone pushes once too often, and has to pick themselves up off the concrete, or gets verbally and emotionally annihilated, they will only have themselves to blame. Believing stereotypes are accurate, is a recipe for pain.
 

Lady_X

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
18,235
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
784
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
oh who gives a f@*K...the trick is to be soft where it counts AND strong where it counts.
 

William K

Uniqueorn
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
986
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
oh who gives a f@*K...the trick is to be soft where it counts AND strong where it counts.

Agreed. It's like a peach, soft and juicy at the outside with a strong solid pit; a core that can choke you or even poison you if you get too much of it :tongue:
 

BlueFlame

New member
Joined
Feb 8, 2010
Messages
181
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
3w2
Haha, wow. This thread turned pretty violent for something about how soft we are!

People who make assumptions about me and my ability to stand up and defend myself, or turn into a cold hard bitch, are in for a surprise. In fact, the surprise factor makes the reaction even more satisfying.
 

Orangey

Blah
Joined
Jun 26, 2008
Messages
6,354
MBTI Type
ESTP
Enneagram
6w5
On another note, I don't see why being "soft" has to imply failure to act appropriately in situations that demand such action. It just means that under certain conditions, one prefers to act in ways that are interpreted as more soft and gentle as opposed to hard or cold (or whatever.)

So an individual, let's call him Marcell, can still be attributed the character trait of softness without expecting him to, for instance, back out of a confrontation for fear of hurting the other person's feelings or incurring their negative opinion. It just means that in softness-conducive situations, such as, for instance, a situation in which he is dealing with an emotionally hurt friend who's looking for comfort, he will readily respond in a comforting and nurturing way. Someone who is not soft (at least in the sense I've adopted in my example) would not readily or consistently behave in soft ways in softness-conducive situations.

The point is this:

I think the OP is criticizing our collective tendency to expect traits such as NF "softness" to manifest themselves (more or less) consistently in soft behaviors across situations. An example of this would be the expectation that an NF be a good listener and comfort to his friends in their hours of need, but be ineffectual as an impartial arbiter of justice. The same softness, presumably derived from some enlarged sense of empathy, is consistently manifested in both situations (comforting friends, operating as impartial judge.) Indeed, this kind of thing is littered throughout MBTI literature, with "positive" and "negative" sides of temperament traits listed in order to come up with career advice (e.g., NT's facility with impartial systems makes mathematics an ideal field, but the same traits that make them good at dealing with impartial systems also make them bad at dealing with people, so they should avoid the helping professions.)

I agree that this is more than likely nonsense. There is no reason to think that an NF's occupation as, for example, judge, and the actions demanded of that occupation, would not influence his behavior as much or more than any softness in his personality. Otherwise, how could we ever have competent NF judges?

But I have proposed that one can still have traits attributed to them without the need for cross-situational consistency; there just needs to be consistency in similar situations across time. A soft person is soft because they consistently display soft behaviors in situations that facilitate softness (whew...too many softs in that sentence.) Softness does not need to emerge in situations that don't facilitate it in order to be assigned as a trait to an individual. In fact, the more consistently an individual manifests trait behavior across situations, the more pathological we tend to think of them (behavior clusters are determined to be rooted in pathology the more consistent they are; someone is depressed only if they've shown behaviors that indicate depression in inappropriate situations, which screws up their work lives, for instance, and only if these behaviors have gone on long enough.)

Thus I think that there is a way to consistently say, going back to Marcell, that he is a soft person, but he is also confrontational and aggressive sometimes when he needs to be. And there is a way to view character traits without assuming consistent manifestation in behavior across situations, which helps us to avoid the problems of stereotyping without abandoning the trait assignation entirely.
 

simulatedworld

Freshman Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2008
Messages
5,552
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I don't think "soft" in this context means conflict-avoidant or unable to stand up for one's beliefs; I think it just means tending toward a more humanistic perspective than a coldly impersonal one.
 

niberrizbe25

New member
Joined
Mar 5, 2010
Messages
36
MBTI Type
ENXP
Enneagram
4/7
I am so glad that all you idealists are strongly disagreeing with the assumption! It bothers me to no end when I see a nice person being walked on. Genuine connection should be respected and not abused. Too many people try the latter and deserve to get there schemas of reality changed... :steam:

Sorry. serious malice SERIOUSLY gets me heated.
 

Lady_X

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
18,235
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
784
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
they don't call us the advocate for nothin :D
 

niberrizbe25

New member
Joined
Mar 5, 2010
Messages
36
MBTI Type
ENXP
Enneagram
4/7
On another note, I don't see why being "soft" has to imply failure to act appropriately in situations that demand such action. It just means that under certain conditions, one prefers to act in ways that are interpreted as more soft and gentle as opposed to hard or cold (or whatever.)

So an individual, let's call him Marcell, can still be attributed the character trait of softness without expecting him to, for instance, back out of a confrontation for fear of hurting the other person's feelings or incurring their negative opinion. It just means that in softness-conducive situations, such as, for instance, a situation in which he is dealing with an emotionally hurt friend who's looking for comfort, he will readily respond in a comforting and nurturing way. Someone who is not soft (at least in the sense I've adopted in my example) would not readily or consistently behave in soft ways in softness-conducive situations.

The point is this:

I think the OP is criticizing our collective tendency to expect traits such as NF "softness" to manifest themselves (more or less) consistently in soft behaviors across situations. An example of this would be the expectation that an NF be a good listener and comfort to his friends in their hours of need, but be ineffectual as an impartial arbiter of justice. The same softness, presumably derived from some enlarged sense of empathy, is consistently manifested in both situations (comforting friends, operating as impartial judge.) Indeed, this kind of thing is littered throughout MBTI literature, with "positive" and "negative" sides of temperament traits listed in order to come up with career advice (e.g., NT's facility with impartial systems makes mathematics an ideal field, but the same traits that make them good at dealing with impartial systems also make them bad at dealing with people, so they should avoid the helping professions.)

I agree that this is more than likely nonsense. There is no reason to think that an NF's occupation as, for example, judge, and the actions demanded of that occupation, would not influence his behavior as much or more than any softness in his personality. Otherwise, how could we ever have competent NF judges?

But I have proposed that one can still have traits attributed to them without the need for cross-situational consistency; there just needs to be consistency in similar situations across time. A soft person is soft because they consistently display soft behaviors in situations that facilitate softness (whew...too many softs in that sentence.) Softness does not need to emerge in situations that don't facilitate it in order to be assigned as a trait to an individual.

Thus I think that there is a way to consistently say, going back to Marcell, that he is a soft person, but he is also confrontational and aggressive sometimes when he needs to be. And there is a way to view character traits without assuming consistent manifestation in behavior across situations, which helps us to avoid the problems of stereotyping without abandoning the trait assignation entirely.

I agree with your premise. The word softness has many connotations to it. Surely just because you have empathy does not mean you dont have pride or self respect. I liked how you used an actual individual to describe your theory, too.
 

niberrizbe25

New member
Joined
Mar 5, 2010
Messages
36
MBTI Type
ENXP
Enneagram
4/7
I used to be pretty confrontational when I was in my teens?

After having to work, go to school, juggle with all sorts of life events, I'm just so tired to have to put up a fight anymore.

People will be people. If need be, if I'm really irritated, I'll let a person know, or simply will not interact with them. Anger takes too much energy away from me. I need a Red Bull for that. Maybe my blood pressure's waay too low. IDK..

On the other hand, when I explode, I EXPLODE.

Maybe some vitamins? You would be surprised how much they help...
 

kiddykat

movin melodies
Joined
Jul 27, 2008
Messages
1,111
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4, 7
It bothers me to no end when I see a nice person being walked on. Genuine connection should be respected and not abused..

Sorry. serious malice SERIOUSLY gets me heated.
Me 2. I get upset when I see genuine people get trampled on. It also majorly bothers me when I see some douchebag give caveman advice on how "ok" it is to mistreat others, because their "perceived" notion of that person says it's okay to do so...

You know how much it hurts to see people get destroyed emotionally? Everytime I see that, I swear I just want to strangle that person.

Kick them in the rear with my pointy boots. Fucker.
 

Thalassa

Permabanned
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
25,183
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx
Hey there Nico here! This is my first thread on this site! Whoho go ahead and break the confety!
Anyways on a slightly more serious tone, I was exploring the Idyllic based threads and recognize a pattern; it seems that many people deem us to be whishy washy, conflict avoidant and vulnerable. I must admit I find this slightly insulting because I think this kind of behaviour goes against my moral code. Sure the are many people who I concider NF's that have, how should I put it nicely, rainbowtastic antics and are scared of any kind of confrontation. I, for one, have no problem with confrontation; usually, I make my agressors put their own foot in their mouth. I want to see what my fellow NF's have to say about this preconcived stereotype.
Rant away!

I relate to this

I used to be pretty confrontational when I was in my teens?

After having to work, go to school, juggle with all sorts of life events, I'm just so tired to have to put up a fight anymore.

People will be people. If need be, if I'm really irritated, I'll let a person know, or simply will not interact with them. Anger takes too much energy away from me. I need a Red Bull for that. Maybe my blood pressure's waay too low. IDK..

On the other hand, when I explode, I EXPLODE.

and this

My close friend tested an INFP, to me she seems like an ENFP.. whatever, anywho. She was hated for being confrontational. to be honest she lost way too many friends because when they did something she didnt like, she effing told them. shes totally an exception to that stereotype.
although i seem to fit it well. hahah

and your friend here...I think she might be an ENFP, not as exception, but actually as a fairly accurate representation of the type. Not all ENFPs are like this...but there are enough of us that are, including me and my sister.

they don't call us the advocate for nothin :D

Exactly. :happy:
 

BlueScreen

Fail 2.0
Joined
Nov 8, 2008
Messages
2,668
MBTI Type
YMCA
I've noticed some ENFP profiles say we take up contact sports to prove ourselves because we feel unmanly as F males :). I actually really like them. Hockey is like a drug, and football is addictive too.

I'm not sure how caring for humanity and being lame relate (except if you look at it in really simple terms). How does doing nothing risky and stopping all the fun help humanity?
 

Charmed Justice

Nickle Iron Silicone
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
2,805
MBTI Type
INFJ
Some people have assumed me to be easy to bulldoze, I think. I can't say I'm entirely sure why, but I had to let them know. Yea, I'm nice and all, but damn, don't try me.
 
Top