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  1. #1
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Default Feelers and forgiveness

    1. When someone does something that hurts you or another can you forgive them?

    Always. I may not choose to be around them, but I will not carry anger at another. To do so, would allow me to hurt them, which is wrong.

    2. How important is intent/motive? Can you forgive them if they hurt someone unintentionally vs intentionally hurting another?

    Everything. Harm without motive is always forgiven, once understood. That is why understanding is so very important. Almost always intentional harm of another arises out of misunderstanding and miscommunication, out of frustration, out of mutual hurt and distrust, defensive reactions. Thus even intentional harm is almost always forgiven.

    3. Is there a limit to how many times you forgive for the same offense?

    Not really. Maybe. I dunno.

    An additional thought concerning forgiveness-

    Te establishes standards for how Fi judges behavior. Or another perspective-Fi may determine what is wrong or right, but in an ENFP Te helps determine how we apply those standards to others around us based upon their innate capabilities. This is why we have to understand others-why we endlessly analyze them. We have to determine where to set those standards and understand what to forgive and how much to forgive. This is why we can endlessly forgive.

    However internally we apply very high Te standards to ourselves-higher so than anyone else. We judge ourselves more stringently and more harshly than any external person could.

    A friend hurt me out of confusion, unintentionally. I lashed out horrifically, nightmarishly, irrationally, in blind rage and anger. I was cruel and barbaric to someone who had only ever been my friend and been caring towards me. I was a monster to this person. I spent the following days digging apart, seeking rationalizations, justifications, analysis, patterns-all manners of excuses to be blunt-to avoid having to face the inevitable. The inevitable is having to judge my own actions by my standards and finding them to be unforgivable.

    No matter how many hugs, justifications, or external affirmations I receive, I will always carry with me the knowledge that I behaved monsterously according to my own standards. That I let my own inner rage, my own weakness, my anger, my hurt, overcome my strength of will and I injured another person. I am built in such a way, that when this loss of control happens I dont just become angry, I become a force of destruction.

    I will never forgive myself and will carry it as a lesson of the cruelty that I can inflict upon another. I will take the lessons learned and apply them to myself, as to not repeat, but I will never forgive myself for my own cruelty to another. It is internally, eternally, by my own standards, unforgivable and unpardonable, and will remain a mark upon me for many years to come.
    Last edited by sculpting; 03-14-2010 at 02:55 PM.

  2. #2
    12 and a half weeks BerberElla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Puppy View Post
    Calling all Feelers!

    1. When someone does something that hurts you or another can you forgive them?
    Depends upon what they did. I consider myself very forgiving, especially if :

    2. How important is intent/motive? Can you forgive them if they hurt someone unintentionally vs intentionally hurting another?
    It has reasonable intent/motive behind it. I can even forgive someone intentionally hurting someone else or me if the motive makes sense to me.


    3. Is there a limit to how many times you forgive for the same offense?


    Yes, that limit is alot shorter than it used to be though. It's still pretty far out there, but at least I can now see the line that someone has to cross for no forgiveness.


    I can forgive, I can't really ever forget. Otherwise each time they repeated the same thing, it would be as if they were starting with a blank sheet, and that's just setting yourself up to be a doormat for all eternity.
    Echo - "So are you trying to say she is Evil"

    DeWitt - "Something far worse, she's an Idealist"

    Berb's Johari Berb's Nohari

  3. #3
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Can I say something too ?
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  4. #4
    Kraken down on piracy Lux's Avatar
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    1. When someone does something that hurts you or another can you forgive them?

    I mostly forgive. If I cannot forgive I let go. It isn't forgiveness, it is a nothingness. This nothingness has only happened once in my life. I doubt it will ever happen again. As I naturally tend toward forgiveness.

    2. How important is intent/motive? Can you forgive them if they hurt someone unintentionally vs intentionally hurting another?


    Motive for me is important. I don't like when another has intentionally hurt me or anyone else. I deem it a weakness in character. It takes me longer to forgive intentional cruelty.

    3. Is there a limit to how many times you forgive for the same offense?

    Not a limit per se. If there is a constant stagnation and an unwillingness for growth, it becomes much harder. I don't enjoy playing games. I will always be there if I sense the person needs me, and is willing to work on.. whatever it was (save for that one person previously mentioned), but there needs to be a willingness on their part as well. I cannot hold together an entire relationship. You can only ignore things for so long.
    "It is not length of life, but depth of life." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

    "Thought breeds thought." ~ Henry David Thoreau

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Puppy View Post
    1. When someone does something that hurts you or another can you forgive them?
    Yes, I can forgive them. Forgetting it might be somewhat tricky. It's not like you're constantly reminded of it but it still emerges from time to time and causes slight sorrow. It also depends on the offense what kind of an impact it has on me and how strongly it possibly will cause me sorrow after forgiving.
    2. How important is intent/motive? Can you forgive them if they hurt someone unintentionally vs intentionally hurting another?
    Forgiving isn't even an issue, regardless whether it was intentional or unintentional. I see forgiving as primarily something that gives me the opportunity to move on and not dwell on the negativity.

    However, intentionally hurting somebody is definitely a graver offense. Either way, the relationship is never going to be same again. It can either get better, it can be a lesson to learn from or things just reduce to being plain civil, nothing more personal than that.
    3. Is there a limit to how many times you forgive for the same offense?
    There is a saying: "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me". I think this pretty much applies to forgiving offenses. Or rather, as I said earlier, forgiving isn't an issue. I can forgive but something is definitely broken from the first offense. And when it happens again, I can forgive but there's no trust anymore. Forgetting the second offense is even harder.

  6. #6
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    *raising the arm* ahmahmahmahm !!!!
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    *raising the arm* ahmahmahmahm !!!!
    "Thinkers and forgiveness"

  8. #8
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sky is BLUE! View Post
    "Thinkers and forgiveness"
    Not going to happen or what ?
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  9. #9
    Phantonym
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Not going to happen or what ?
    Thread creation is only a few clicks away. Then you can talk as long as you want about forgiveness.

  10. #10
    That's my name biotch! JoSunshine's Avatar
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    1. When someone does something that hurts you or another can you forgive them?
    Yes. I probably am too forgiving. I can only think of one person I haven't forgiven in my life. Although, if the person refuses to admit the harm/hurt they have caused, I have a tendancy to harbor resentment for a long time...aknowledgement of one's mistakes is the key to me quickly forgiving them.


    2. How important is intent/motive? Can you forgive them if they hurt someone unintentionally vs intentionally hurting another?
    Very in terms of how quickly I am able to forgive.


    3. Is there a limit to how many times you forgive for the same offense?
    Yes and no. Someone can do the same thing over and over again and I can still forgive them, but I would probably withdraw emotionally and/or physically in order to protect myself since a pattern of behavior suggests I will be repeatedly hurt.
    "Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. " - Dr. Seuss
    I can't spell...get over it

    Slightly ENFJ, totally JoSunshine
    Extroverted (E) 52.5%........Introverted (I) 47.5%
    Intuitive (N) 65.63%..........Sensing (S) 34.38%
    Feeling (F) 55.56%............Thinking (T) 44.44%
    Judging (J) 51.43%............Perceiving (P) 48.57%

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