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  1. #211
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    If you're suggesting that no one would interpret anything you say here as abrasive in real life, I beg to differ. If you really behave just the same way in real life that you do here, you've probably made a lot of enemies as well as friends.
    Sure I've made a few enemies over the years.
    Considering how I made them, I'm very proud.

  2. #212
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    I think you stuck it out because you knew I just like arguing and don't really hate people as much as it might seem like I do. You just listened to what I said instead of imagining your own meaning in it, and you knew it was often exaggerated and intentionally inflammatory, so you didn't take it that seriously.
    Sure, and I can be pretty tenacious; even if offended I try to stick it out. Because when I said your comments didn't bother me, that wasn't 100% true ... it did hurt my feelings a bit when you basically called me a bitc* ...

    You just made me want to try harder to find your truth. I don't think you hate people at all. And I see how you use this as an outlet for frustration. But other folks don't have the benefit of knowing that. And they won't stick around to figure it out.

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    A little more than it used to, sure. I'm not sure I understand the point here, though. Jaguar seems to be saying that he's exactly the same in real life as he is here, but that no one finds it abrasive at all. I find that hard to believe.

    He's also saying that I lack integrity because I'm willing to speak more openly here about certain things than I am to the real life people they involve. I don't think that says much about integrity; there are definitely times when it's not wise or appropriate to say everything that comes to mind.
    Edit: @purple: I will expand on that tomorrow. There's a difference between talking things out vs taking things out on others.

    Edit: @bold: that's true.

    There are word choices that reflect a position of integrity, and sometimes you can use words that cast a less than favorable light on you.

    But I haven't read the whole thread so I don't know exactly what's been exchanged, but I will give it a go-over tomorrow if you want to dissect it.

    I am happy to chat on this more but must head to bed.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  3. #213
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Sure I've made a few enemies over the years.
    Considering how I made them, I'm very proud.
    Doesn't this sound like an Fi value to you? I know Fe often seems fake and disingenuous to you, but it's not intended to be from the viewpoint of Fe users.

    When I was younger I acted more similarly in real life to the way I do on the forum...and I was often interpreted as abrasive and disrespectful. I would freely call out anyone I thought was being illogical or unreasonable and eventually it damaged enough personal relationships that I had to change.

    Learning to hold my tongue in real life even when I thought something was illogical was an important lesson for me, and I don't really understand how you can say that means I lack integrity. It's become genuinely important to me to respect the culture of the family and friend groups that I belong to, and it's working out much better for me than just bluntly telling off everyone I disagreed with.

    Your criticisms here sound a lot like your typical criticisms of Fe, and I have a hard time taking those seriously.


    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Sure, and I can be pretty tenacious; even if offended I try to stick it out. Because when I said your comments didn't bother me, that wasn't 100% true ... it did hurt my feelings a bit when you basically called me a bitc* ...

    You just made me want to try harder to find your truth. I don't think you hate people at all. And I see how you use this as an outlet for frustration. But other folks don't have the benefit of knowing that. And they won't stick around to figure it out.
    You don't think I'm aware of this? I just don't consider it that big a deal. I'm not lacking in social contacts to the point that I really need to worry about it if some random person on the internet doesn't want to talk to me. You have to prove that your opinion is somehow meaningful to me before I'll take steps to positively impact it. If you'd rather just ignore me entirely, that's just fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    There are word choices that reflect a position of integrity, and sometimes you can use words that cast a less than favorable light on you.

    But I haven't read the whole thread so I don't know exactly what's been exchanged, but I will give it a go-over tomorrow if you want to dissect it.

    I am happy to chat on this more but must head to bed.
    I know that; I just find it difficult to take lessons in integrity seriously from someone whose reputation for abrasiveness here matches mine pound for pound (Jaguar, not you.)

    As for others, I've managed to make some friends here, and I imagine if my choices of words bothered them that much they'd already have started ignoring me entirely.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  4. #214
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    You don't think I'm aware of this? I just don't consider it that big a deal.
    I know; we differ this way. I hear you and will give it some reflection and respond in the morning.

    Also, I had an edit above; will expand on that too. The whole question of integrity is an interesting one in this context.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  5. #215
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Learning to hold my tongue in real life even when I thought something was illogical was an important lesson for me, and I don't really understand how you can say that means I lack integrity. It's become genuinely important to me to respect the culture of the family and friend groups that I belong to, and it's working out much better for me than just bluntly telling off everyone I disagreed with.

    Your criticisms here sound a lot like your typical criticisms of Fe, and I have a hard time taking those seriously.
    You have made assumptions about why I think you lack integrity.
    It's has nothing to do with "holding your tongue."

    It has to do with your inconsistency, as well as your lab rat approach toward people here.
    You also say shit that you don't even really mean, just to argue.
    And you call that integrity?

    It's that inconsistency which leads people to form an opinion of you that is less than trustworthy and not exactly brimming with integrity.
    How many faces does Sim have? 5, 10, 15?

    Not a glowing testimonial.

  6. #216
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    You have made assumptions about why I think you lack integrity.
    It's has nothing to do with "holding your tongue."

    It has to do with your inconsistency, as well as your lab rat approach toward people here.
    You also say shit that you don't even really mean, just to argue.
    And you call that integrity?
    So you're suggesting that it's acceptable to be abrasive and offensive as long as you believe everything you're saying? Why is it ok for you to attack people, but not for me? Regardless of whether you really believe what you're saying, the effect on others is the same.

    And I do believe the underlying point of what I'm saying most of the time. It just gets exaggerated for effect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    It's that inconsistency which leads people to form an opinion of you that is less than trustworthy and not exactly brimming with integrity.
    How many faces does Sim have? 5, 10, 15?

    Not a glowing testimonial.
    So it comes down to the fact that I'm willing to argue positions I don't support for sport? That's the reason I lack integrity?
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  7. #217
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    That's most certainly true, but it's not a question of guts. It's a question of caring more about preserving relationships with people in real life.




    Not coincidentally, we get along much better with the FJs and they tend to appreciate our sense of humor/pick up on the fact that we're joking 20x more than you do. We don't seem nearly as serious, especially to the NFJs, because they're way better at reading us than you are. Personally, I have a lot of trouble reading NTJs.

    It's a Ti/Fe vs. Fi/Te communication gap. NTPs are not any more objectively obnoxious than NTJs; you just understand the NTJ sense of humor better because you share their judging functions. End of story.
    Hmm.. I think I could accept the general concept of "humor understanding/misunderstanding between types", but I do not agree with your breakdowns... well from personal experience anyway.

    INFPs get butthurt with my jokes from time to time, but I can't remember a single incident involving an ISFP.
    When it comes to ISFJs, I don't even have to crack a joke... my "poorly timed" laughter alone is sufficiently offensive.
    Also, strangely enough, ENFJs that I've known shared a uniquely "socially demented" type of humor... but eventually we grow to despise each other based on other things (i.e. ENFJ: "Why don't you want to be part of my flock?" Me: "Fuck your flock")
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

  8. #218
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    So you're suggesting that it's acceptable to be abrasive and offensive as long as you believe everything you're saying? Why is it ok for you to attack people, but not for me?
    Who am I "attacking?" Or is it that you are too blind to see my true intent?
    I assure you, there are people here who have figured me out on their own.
    You are not one of them.

    And I do believe the underlying point of what I'm saying most of the time. It just gets exaggerated for effect.
    Oh, I see. Like your abortion avatar? "Adorable."

    So it comes down to the fact that I'm willing to argue positions I don't support for sport? That's the reason I lack integrity?
    I tell ya' what. I'll make a list.

  9. #219
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Who am I "attacking?" Or is it that you are too blind to see my true intent?
    I assure you, there are people here who have figured me out on their own.
    You are not one of them.
    Like the people you got graveyarded for trolling and insulting? Are you really trying to argue that you are not routinely abrasive on the forum? How many people do you think perceive you that way?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Oh, I see. Like your abortion avatar? "Adorable."
    There's not even a serious position expressed by that avatar. It's just a pun.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    I tell ya' what. I'll make a list.
    Great, let's hear it.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  10. #220
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    The irony of Simulated World and Jaguar arguing yet again about absolutely nothing in a thread makes me suspect this is some kind of weird public foreplay.

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