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  1. #171
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    It really has less to do with the other person, and more to do with staking out a position and exploring all the surrounding angles.
    Yeah I would guess that a lot of the type 4's who get trolled see it as a personal attack, rather than an attack on their ideas. I say this because that seems to be the most common conflict, a few type 4's vs a few ENTPs. That's why it seems so offensive. There is no tone of voice over the internet (unless that race from Mass Effect 2 who inserts the emotional tone before a sentence exists, which I seriously doubt! ). In real life... if a debate like that arose, the tone of voice wouldn't be verbally abusive or anything ridiculous like that that's perceived here. It's more curious, thoughtful, and playful. I'm sometimes amazed by the hostility that I see here, since something like that would probably not happen over something so retarded in real life.

    To answer marm's question, yes you can pretty easily get to know what the types are like online. But being trollbait isn't a great way of doing that. The way I see most of these conflicts go, is that type 4 NFP will get offended at something the ENTP says. So they go aggro on the person. ANYONE will get defensive when someone gets aggressive with them... so what does the ENTP do? Sure they get defensive, but their idea of being defensive, especially over the internet, is to steamroll someone with their mind. Thus, conflict. I think that the main point that the ENTPs have been trying to get across to these people is just to engage them on an equal level. Logically analyzing and being fair, not being personally offensive and vengeful. That confuses them. This is just from observing, lol.

    AND THEN THE THREAD DIED.

    EDIT: Amargith is a 4! Not a 9. She just wants threads to actually go somewhere, it's not a reason out of keeping the peace. Trust me, I've talked to her enough to know she's 4.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  2. #172
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    If someone takes delight in making someone cry, they have severe psychological problems.
    I'd agree that taking delight/poking, in hopes that someone cries, yeah, severe psychological problems. For example:

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...8-post898.html

    Look Jag, we're in agreement.

  3. #173
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    I'd agree that taking delight/poking, in hopes that someone cries, yeah, severe psychological problems.
    Sure thing, Q.


  4. #174
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Sure thing, Q.

    Wait, since you've said earlier that I'm the little girl in the pic:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Do they have birds shitting on their head?
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...958-post6.html

    You're doing it again? Taking pleasure in a little girl's fear? Oh, Jag. Where's your humanity?


  5. #175
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Wait, since you've said earlier that I'm the little girl in the pic:


    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...958-post6.html

    You're doing it again? Taking pleasure in a little girl's fear? Oh, Jag. Where's your humanity?

    Stop wasting my time.

  6. #176
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Stop wasting my time.

  7. #177
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Default My behaviour....

    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    True, and the thing is, I have a pretty twisted sense of humor. Some of my favorite people on this site are meanly funny. I even find you and Qre:us funny sometimes, yet at other times feel backed into a corner by irrational tertiary Fe. I've even had INFJs confirm that ENTPs will do this - back people into corners. It's very nasty, and it's almost like bullying. The reason why I don't have this response to NTJs is because they don't seem to relish cornering people who are crying. Maybe there's something about Ni in general that backs off, and something about Ne in general that keeps going, which maybe why ENTPs and NFPs bug each other ... it's not just the Ti/Fi thing to blame.
    No.

    The cornering you speak of in a discussion is not irrational Fe....it's NeTi and it seems harsh because there's a distinct lack of F-warmth, although it's not intentional. In real life interactions, such things are smoothened by my personal presence and delivery.

    And, there's very specific reasons when I corner someone on a personal front, where, yes, it is Fe, being employed.

    See:

    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Puppy View Post
    Just wrt the ENTPs

    I'd make a guess and say this isnt Fe-the backing in a corner. They are debating about Fe, but they are using NeTi in a highly aggressive manner-that's the point-counterpoint you are seeing.

    This can be really fun IRL if on an issue you are not emotionally invested in, but in text comes across exceptionally harsh. It even stings me, so I have to take a minute sometimes and replay the text in my mind as though it came from my ENTP to find the right verbal tone. Even then her and I have had a few highly emotive displays regarding jungian functions. (The parallels in those convos are amazingly similar to the convos that happen here-the topics)

    When an ENTP uses Fe I see two things happen-

    1.they will actually not reply to your posts. You kinda get shunned, albeit I cannot speak for the internal feelings/motivations that are ascribed to this behavior. I think they observe I am combative and thus they will refrain from interacting-it really does disturb them???

    2. They play a cute cat and mouse game to lure you into a trap then spring it on you. This seems to be Fe being used in the service of NeTi perhaps?? Never piss off an ENTP in real life. They are the tops at this game.
    Yes, this rings true. It's a distinct lack of Fe that gets interpreted as "harsh" by others.

    Because:

    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    It really has less to do with the other person, and more to do with staking out a position and exploring all the surrounding angles.
    ^ This. I'm really involved in understanding the idea, which means trying to take it apart, and seeing how easily it crumbles. Because if it doesn't, it means, it's solid.

    And, I'll zero in on the idea, but "attack" it from multiple angles, which could seem like I may be "cornering", i.e., isolating the idea, and then attacking it from multiple different angles, and quite fast-paced too.

    I've noticed that usually when I'm in NeTi mode, on this forum, if someone agrees with a post of mine, I don't really do the validation stuff (I see it as somewhat trivial). I just tackle the parts that are still unclear, not agreed on, up for debate. Which may make the other person feel like I'm not trying to play nice, because they've said they agree with parts of my idea, while I come back and "attack" theirs. That's really not my intention. It's simply that what is agreed upon is resolved, there's no need to give attention to it, so, I just tackle what is still up for debate.

    And, when Fe joins the fun, it's exactly how Happy Puppy outlined 1 and 2.

    From myself, on this board, I've noticed that my Fe is usually employed in a negative way, when I see:

    (a) that the other is starting to take the idea dissection personally,
    (b) when someone has made a righteously ignorant comment (by my standard, like a bigoted comment, homophobic comment, sexist comment, etc),
    (c) when someone is trying to feed me/us bullshit but not in a joking manner. They are taking it seriously, and asking the audience to do so as well (seeing arrogance in another, where it implies that others are of less value, more stupid, also qualifies),
    (d) when someone unfairly attacks another with an honest inquiry (sans implied judgement),
    (e) when I'm getting trolled, or have gotten trolled by that person
    (f) when someone is passive-aggressive with me
    (g) when someone takes the first shot to make it personal, i.e., inviting me to "play", and that's when I say, "You wanna play? Let's play." <- usually results in one-upmanship from my end, as in, they start the game, I'll finish it.

    ^ good or bad, there you have it.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    This is the internet, and they probably just think it's funny to troll you and don't take this seriously at all. ENTPs don't really do that in the real world... if they cared about you I really can't see why that would happen. The only time that I've really been cornered by anyone in real life is in an impersonal debate... and nothing really personal. That's not really much of an offense, just the way a debate goes.

    It's kind of sad that people take these ENTP-NFP relations that happen on the internet seriously, because it just doesn't seem to be like this at all in reality.
    + 1, I get along famously with my best friend's sister, an ENFP, and I adore my mother, and she loves my personality, and she's INFP, and my ex-roomie and I got along famously, another INFP.

    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Well, wouldn't it be nice if they gave us better examples of themselves so we could learn to recognize them better in real life?
    I'm only a stellar example for understanding and communication, with others on this board, who I think are willing to engage with me half-way, without too easily seeing my intent as purposely stepping on their toes (their personal hesitation with me, I can smell it, which makes me not really give a fuck).

    I have amazing online relationships with quite a few NFPs on this board, and we communicate in great depths to better understand each other, our motivations, and esp. learning how to better understand each other's Ti/Fe and Fi/Te. I don't extend that to everyone (not logical, in terms of energy), esp. when they are the ones I see breaking (a)-(g) quite frequently. As for the rest, on this board; they are anonymous entities to me. I'm neutral towards them.

    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Those who would use crying as a tactic or a weapon also have severe psychological problems.
    Amen.

    EDIT, to add: if one or more of (a)-(g) is not broken, I actually find "meanly funny" being directed at a person, to be bullying, and those who find enjoyment out of it, to be condoning bullying. I don't find any humour in getting enjoyment out of being mean (funny or otherwise) towards an underserved person.

    / long off-topic post, but, marm brought my name into it, so.....

  8. #178
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Correction - men susceptible to peer pressure don't wear pink.
    Men who aren't susceptible, wear whatever the hell they want.
    Like pink bunny slippers!


    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Stop wasting my time.
    Isn't this whole forum thing one gigantic time-wasting black hole? :confused:


    Anyway, on a note unrelated to the above Jaguar quotes:

    I think the ENTP online dickery thing is comparable to, say, an ESTP who joins a boxing team in his free time. He really enjoys the physical competition but he can't just go around punching everyone in his everyday life, so he finds an outlet.

    I think we find being openly abrasive much more acceptable on the internet because it's so easy to just ignore us/choose not to participate if you don't want to argue. It's different from real life because in real life, if we're attacking you, it's difficult to ignore. On here, you can easily just not respond to us, or put us on your ignore list. It's that simple.

    It takes (at least) two people to argue. If there's only one person who really wants to argue, then no argument can occur. Remember that.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  9. #179
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Like pink bunny slippers!
    Of course!
    I think the ENTP online dickery thing is comparable to, say, an ESTP who joins a boxing team in his free time. He really enjoys the physical competition but he can't just go around punching everyone in his everyday life, so he finds an outlet.
    Not all ENTPs behave like cockroaches, Sim.
    But there are many in this forum who do.
    Frankly, I don't think they'd have the guts to say half the shit they do in this forum, to someone's face.

  10. #180
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Of course!


    Not all ENTPs behave like cockroaches, Sim.
    But there are many in this forum who do.
    Frankly, I don't think they'd have the guts to say half the shit they do in this forum, to someone's face.
    That's some mighty fine projection you've got going on there, bud.

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